City Council Special Called Meeting Transcript – 11/16/2016 Title: ATXN 24/7 Recording Channel: 6 - ATXN Recorded On: 11/16/2016 6:00:00 AM Original Air Date: 11/16/2016 Transcript Generated by SnapStream ================================== [4:09:36 PM] >> Mayor Adler: You guys ready? Let me go ahead and begin by thanking everybody for coming. To the degree that the last layout felt like the versailles talks I think this one has gone that even. [Laughter]. Thanks for our staff for figuring out how to accommodate the groups that we have. A joint meeting of the council and the cag with the addition of the chairs of the sovereign boards. Again, I want to thank everyone for being here, especially to the cag. You all have done yoemam's work here over the last few months and really what you guys are doing are co-lessing the issues for the community. And really helping to kick this off. For the community with all the larger work and time that you've spent. When we were last together we talked about what we would try to achieve at this meeting and then we talked about having an additional joint meeting in January as well. And the emphasis for this meeting was to come up with a schedule that the community could see a timeline so that everybody could see where they were on that timeline. You guys have been hearing the same thing that I've been hearing and we've been hearing with people that just don't know how they fit in with the process. [4:11:43 PM] We have you guys on the cag wanting to know who you are and what is expected and how you do the handoff to the planning commission. We have the planning commission wanting to know where they are in the process and scared to death that you guys in the cag will have buttoned up this whole process and it will be done and the community will be happy before they ever get to see anything. [Laughter] If only that were possible to have happen that's how I would vote. But how we do that and then how do we get these sovereign boards in the position where they're best able to receive that handoff and be constructive in the work they have to do by charter on this. And then the same thing, how does the handoff then go from them back to the council so that we don't drop the ball and so that we can keep this moving and take what that a point will be the best of the cag and the commission to us. And then all of that -- and how does that work from a timing standpoint. And how does that work with the public? I've had a lot of people come to me scared to death that there will be a draft of something that comes out and the public will have four weeks to react to it. And clearly that can't and won't happen, but until we can lay it out for the public how can they know that won't happen? So we had talked together as a group last time about asking staff and the consultants to come back to us with something we could edit and work on and discuss, kind of combined as' group, and talk through the issues that were involved, with the goal being to try to have some kind of timeline that would get us this herculean task done in a way where [4:13:44 PM] everybody could see where they were and how they fit in. Are we talking one drafts, are we talking two drafts, three drafts? At which point do we start seeing mapping associated? These are questions everybody is asking and we want to kind of lay that out for everybody. Again, I will repeat that I'm not sure that there's anything that this city does next year that is more important than this work and getting this code done. We don't have any choice but to get this done and to get this done well. It involves so much of what is the city, not just zoning, but -- and the land use questions, but it's about drainage and it's about landscape willing -- landscaping and the way this city looks and how the city feels. There's so much of what the city does that get incorporated and it's the -- this is the expression of the strategic plan, which is why our land use plan said one of the first things we have to do after you get the strategic plan is to now go and do the code. So the goal for today is to go through this proposal that we have gotten from the consultants and from our staff and to talk about it. What I want to do is I'm going to talk about it here at a really high level, but then I want the staff and the consultant to take us through it in greater detail. I want to talk -- and if you could do that vertically by phase, I think that might be a good way to understand it as I look at this. And then I want to have a conversation as a group about this, but looking at it at a horizontal way so that we look at the public and we look at where it is that the public is weighing in and what are they weighing in on. [4:15:46 PM] I want to come back down to the cag then and look at the cag horizontally and the question that I have for you and I think the council has for you is what is the best way for you to take the fruits of your labor and your work and your insight and be able to do an effective handoff to the sovereign board so that they're not reinventing the wheel, so that they're oriented and so that they could do their work constructively. And then I want to look at the sovereign boards on the vertical with respect to the same kind of question. What do you need to do? What does the public need to do? What is everybody doing so that when the council gets this -- the council gets to the end of 2017 how does the council not have to reinvent the wheel. How can it benefit by all of the different runners in this relay that have handed the bat ton off to the next group that's doing that? I will tell you at a high level I like the beginning point and the end point on this because this has this process running before we get into election in 2018 when half the council is going to be up for election. And I just saw an election and how any of those councilmembers actually did their job on the council while they were running for election is unbelievable to me, and I think that it might actually be harder in two years than it was this time. So having a start date and an end date where we can get this done I think is real key. Jim, I know that the staff consultants have talked about this at a really high level, so help lead us through with the cag in terms of the conversation so that we get the best input of everybody on the cag, but before I turn this over at a [4:17:48 PM] really high level, they've broken this into -- you've seen this, this is posted for the public, so this is available for the public to see. It was emailed out to the cag members, the link yesterday. Four phases, a predraft phaser we're in right now trying to set this up. The next meeting of the cag and the council would be part of the predraft phase and then we actually have a code that comes out at the end of January and then there's the public review of that draft. In the middle of that process between February and August where the public is reviewing that draft, we're going to see the mapping. Everybody in the community was asking for the mapping to come quickly on the heels of the code so that we weren't having just an academic conversation, but so that we could see how it would really be applied. And I am thankful that you guys figured out a way to actually have us discussing both of these at the same time because I'm not sure we're going to be able to really discuss one way or the other until we really see how it gets applied. But then that has us then having all that comment and that work, then being able to process that, take that knowledge and those comments and then to turn it into what would then become the draft that the sovereign boards would be considering with the benefit of all that work. And then giving you and the public and all the resources that you need to be able to advance us to the place where you can make a recommendation to the council. And the council actually has that recommendation to conceivably receive it and do a first reading before the calendar year was over and then everybody having the holidays and the time off in January, although we may not have as much time off in that January as we historically have had in January, to pick this back [4:19:48 PM] up and have those conversations with hopefully a second or third reading in time for us to be done with this before -- before -- so we can get to other stuff. You want to walk us through what your recommendation is and then let's open it up for people's conversations. >> Thank you, mayor and council and cag. And chairs of the zoning and platting commission and the planning commission and the audience as well. I want to first point out on the agenda this evening there is an error on 2 a it says public releases this month and that's obviously not going to happen. That's in January, but I wanted to point out that so there's no concern over that. So before you in the 11 by 17, two colors draft, is the schedule. As the mayor indicated, there are four phases. We are in the predraft phase. Staff is working with the consultant, working with other staff and preparing for the public release that would occur in January of the current phase. The second phase is actually the public review draft and that's where it goes through a review. This is not a short review. It goes -- spans approximately seven months, and it will be reviewed by citizens and different stakeholders, individual property owners. Staff would be going out and talking with these groups. There would be many public meetings that would occur. The phase III is where the cag is then passing off to the zoning and platting commission and the planning [4:21:50 PM] commission for them to work, but over those months in phase II staff will also be talking with the zoning and platting commission and the planning commission, making sure that they're ready to receive that. And cag will have work also to pass on to the planning commission and zoning and platting commission. And phase IV is where the council work begins. The commission will be making their recommendations and then passing that on to the city council. That would actually be at the end of 2017. The chart list dates along the top by year below the different phase numbers. And as you look crews the rows it does - - look across the rows it does speak to the different groups, the general public, the code advisory group, which is the cag, pz and zap, which is the planning and zoning and zoning. And just to highlight those, the public review draft, there's an icon for code that will come out on the 30th. The mapping and previously, before this summer I think there's been a lot of discussion that the map would come after the code. We've worked with our consultants and brought this forward because everyone wants to know when you receive the code how it would apply, where it would apply. And that's been moved up. There is a time lag between the public review draft and the mapping draft because we want to make sure people understand what the code is and will allow then staff to introduce the map so they have a better understanding when the map comes out how the code would apply. But they both come together in August, so when the zoning and platting commission and the planning commission have a time to look at the map and look at the code they will come [4:23:53 PM] together and then the public will speak to those at the public hearings for the commission. The recommendations from the commissions will be brought forward with that text for the city council to consider at their first reading. We have a date tentatively scheduled by the end of December so people have the holiday to review that. Then it would come back as a third draft. So there's three drafts. The public review draft that everyone will see and comment on. The second draft is where the map and the code come together which the zoning and platting commission and the planning commission will see. And after the council has an opportunity to look at those comments that you are recommendations from the zoning and platting commission, planning commission, with that first reading draft then there will be a third draft which will be the second and third reading draft for council. As you look below that there are major public events. We'll look at the release of the public review draft that will take place in January, but we'll actually speak to that. We'll have a rollout of the maps. That would be in April, tentatively set around the 18th. Early September will be the planning commission and zap commission hearings, then the city council on December 14th. And then in march-april will be the second and third reading draft. And at the end they all come together for approval. Yes. The predraft speaks to the meetings that we're going to have with the cag and the cag and council are going to meet again in January. I know our consultants will be available I think the week of the 9th through the 13th. We already have a cag [4:25:53 PM] meeting I think scheduled on the 9th, but there is tentatively set up and certainly -- >> [Inaudible]. >> Right. And the council and the cag, just as a meeting that would be public here, the council and the cag would be a public meeting as well. And we anticipate at that time that -- at that time that we'll probably talk about the engagement process and the public will certainly have that opportunity to see that coming along. The cag meeting, as I said, will be based on looking at a schedule that we're going to have discussion today, and then preview that at that January meeting. The zap and planning commission will be meeting with them, talking about the engagement process before that comes out. And as that comes forward. And then we'll be meeting with the councilmembers to give them an update. That second phase -- >> Mayor Adler: Hold on before you get to the second phase. When he's done with this we're going to go through this in detail and talk about suggestions. The goal being that at the end of our conversation today they'll take this comment and people's thoughts and suggestions and come back to us at a joint meeting in January with another version of this that kind of reflects the conversation that we're about to have. But so that I get the understanding with respect to phase I, the public's participation would be similar to the way that it exists right now, basically in watching what it is that the cag's done, being invited to the cag meetings, being invited to participate in discussions consistent with your rules as you have been doing that, however you might change that or not change that. The cag just talks about that. When we come back in January it would be helpful if you've had the opportunity to meet with the cag, if this is what we're going to do and identify what the specific topic areas are so the public has a feel for [4:27:53 PM] what those might be. I think when we get back in January we're trying to get to as much level of detail to deal with expectations as best as we can. And then you're talking about basically orienting the councilmembers individually during that period of time to go through them with the council, and then going to the sovereign board meetings and having another opportunity for the public to be engaged as you are orienting and updating the sovereign boards? Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> Kitchen: Mr. Guernsey, I thought I heard you say this, but I wasn't sure. In this predraft phase you were talking about the cag meeting, I think, but did I hear you say that the cag and the pz and draft would all be meeting together with this draft? >> The cag and council and the chairs would certainly be invited to that joint meeting. >> Kitchen: You were referring to that meeting in January? >> But we would also like to sit down with the chair of the planning commission and the zoning and platting commission because we want to have meetings with them as well just like we're meeting with the cag. We want them to be up to speed for them to understand. We're going to be talking about schedule and engagement and hear from them what their thoughts are on this process. >> Prior to the January 30th rollout or immediately to follow is there an anticipated full cag, full pz, kind of get everything out on the table as far as what people know and don't know? >> I think we would probably need to have Jim Duncan, the chair of the cag and the chairs of Tom and Steve, certainly we probably need to have that discussion. We haven't finalized this and we want to make sure that we discuss with all three of you how that would be rolled out. >> Okay. >> Mayor Adler: Okay. Go ahead. This is not to say that [4:29:55 PM] you -- we're going to finish this real fast and have everybody comment about the whole thing. You're not giving up the opportunity to talk about phase I if he's talking about phase II, but go ahead. >> [Inaudible - no mic]. >> Mayor Adler: Can you press your on button. >> Eleanor Mckinney, district 5. I just really want to encourage that what Mr. Oliver was saying about kind of a joint meeting between the cag and the zap and the PC because we have certainly over the last year heard a lot of bits of information from the public and presentations. It seems to me that more than just a report from the cag, that there needs to be time for us to really be able to communicate at some kind of joint meeting as well as even looking at -- we found out that the PC had these different subcommittees that are comparable to the zap, to the cag subcommittees on the prescription papers, and how -- again, the cag has kind of drilled down in our working groups and to be able to pass that off not just in a report, but actually kind of meet between those groups and really start a dialogue I think would be helpful. >> Mayor Adler: Okay. Take us to phrase two. >> So phase II under the general public, all our meetings are basically public. When we have the cag, they're welcome to attend. And that's certainly with the commissions as well. But the general public will have the opportunity once the draft is released to provide comments. We're talking -- we're having public meetings, online survey. We'll have work sessions. We're talking about office hours where individuals that would like to meet with staff could meet with us. Line staff. [4:31:56 PM] Consultants would be available at some of those meetings so that's what we're talking about for the general public. But that period is not a short period. It's certainly not four weeks, as some of you may have heard. That is a period from February to August where that would take place. For the cag, this is where -- >> Mayor Adler: Before you go on to the cag, with respect to the combined district based meetings, what's kind of the vision for that? Number of that? So that we can talk about that here. >> There would be presentations that we would be making. We haven't figured out exactly how those would run, but they would be presentations inviting the public in to the different districts areas. We would actually be going out. They wouldn't be just meetings a the city hall, but we would actually go out to the district areas and have meetings in those geographic areas. The office hours would probably be something that would be housed in our building, but in these public meetings we would have staff and the consultants that would be present and people with interact and ask questions about codenext. And when we get to the mapping portion we would be having another round of those discussions with the public in those areas. >> Mayor Adler: So you're talking about having a round between February and April and then a second round between April and June. >> That's right, mayor, and talk about the mapping because people will certainly have questions about the code but then the questions are how would this apply to my property or this area of the city? >> Mayor Adler: Okay. Keep going down this. Thank you. >> The cag will also be certainly involved in collecting this because they are helping this process to make sure that we are communicating with the public. There's not groups that we're missing. [4:33:57 PM] Regardless of age, race, location in the city, whether you rent, you own, we want to make sure we're hitting all those different groups. People have different concerns, maybe environmental concerns, housing concerns, traffic concerns, but that all those folks are providing input on the code. So the cag is collecting that feedback from them, making sure that we're reaching out to all those different folks. Zoning and platting commission and planning commission. >> Mayor Adler: What were you thinking about in terms of the report and handoff? >> I think that is something we would probably work with the cag on. I think that there's an expectation certainly by the planning commission and the zoning and platting commission who have we heard from? What maybe those concerns have been raised? Certainly individuals from the cag will be involved, and I'll speak to that in later phases because they have certain expertise on their own that they would probably like to express, but I want to make sure that everyone's hearing from the cag that those groups have been represented and they are heard from, and that if there are particular concerns that those are passed on to the cag -- from the cag to the zoning and platting commission and planning commission. >> Mayor Adler: Guy? >> Guy Dudley, district 6. And I apologize if this has been asked previous. While we're talking to our constituents in Austin is there going to be a document available showing what's changed in the code? >> Yes. We're going to talk about those portions of the code. When we go through the surveys we're probably going to hear from folks that they have comments on maybe certain sections. People want to know what has changed. And that's very much part of this dialogue. So I can tell you, for instance, the mcmansion regulations, residential design standards, they're not disappearing. They may be found in other parts of the code. And people will probably want to know how that's [4:35:58 PM] going to work, where that's located. And we'll be able to address those. But this is a rewrite of the code. So to say "On page whatever of the current code where exactly is this section going to be found." Well, it may have changed in the new code because we're talking about the mcmansion regulations and they're going to be placed in this general area and how they work. We'll be able to explain that. >> Mayor Adler: When we get to this -- I'll recognize Lindsey in a second. I want to make sure we have a good discussion here in a second about the cag's advice to what it should be doing to best position the reports. Leslie? >> Pool: When we talk about mapping, there's -- we have first reading text and map, second and third reading text and map. Is the map like a map that's a schematic or are you talking about a crosswalk that maps the old code to the new code? Which I think is more what Mr. Dudley is talking about. What kind of map are you intending? >> The mapping we're talking about is rezoning the entire city of Austin. >> Pool: So it's actually a map. >> It's actually a city map that the code as we amend it there's the code that we're actually drafting and there's the land development code, which are the regulations. And the map actually speaks to where they're going to apply. There's going to be concerns by the public I think about most would be both of those, but the mapping is probably going to be the one they want to know the most. Okay. So I understand the code. I understand how that's going to work, but where is it suggested that it's going to apply? What's going to be on my neighbor's property? What's going to apply to my property? >> Pool: And I think that's real important, but I think before we even get to [4:37:58 PM] that point, again to Mr. Dudley's point, and I think I've heard the members of the citizens advisory group talk about this previously, and I join them in this request. I would like to see if this is chapter 25 of the old code and now it's chapter 6 of the new code, we need to have a crosswalk so that we can refer back, a disposition chart that shows all of the old pieces and how they are newly numbered and how they're grouped so that we can do kind of a visual crosswalk of where the old is now appearing in the new code. >> Mayor Adler: And Peter, I want to make sure you and John feel free to step in and answer questions too. >> Pool: Is that something that's part of the -- what will be produced with the code? >> And just so the public knows I'm joined by Peter park, Peter park consulting, and also John Mickey with opticos, which are the consultants that are aiding us with the creation of this new code. >> Mayor Adler: Can we answer Leslie's question about -- hang on one second. Hang on. Let's get an answer. Leslie wants to know if there's going to be like a crosswalk. >> Pool: Yeah. And that way we can be sure that things aren't left behind, for example. >> Sure. And I think -- what we've always talked about is the crosswalk or the disposition table. It's not going to get down to fine grain section number this or subsection 25. B .1, but it will be at a higher level more at chapter, article and division level. Or in some cases, as reg mentioned, at the residential design level, it's a specific topic where we can talk about what happened then? How is it then incorporated throughout the code? Because often as we're rewriting this or reorganizing everything, it [4:39:59 PM] could be that in today's code you have three sentences that talk about a topic. Well, those sentences may have been moved and incorporated into other parts of the code so now you don't have a section that's specifically about residential design standards. Those standards have actually been unfortunated into the code throughout the code. So it's now infused across the code. And we can talk about specifically what we did and where those landed, but it's never going to be like specifically this section moved here because that's a level of fine grain detail when you get to a land development code rewrite that is not really possible, but we can talk to many of the articles and divisions and bigger topics. >> Pool: I think I'd like to kind of park that request instead of taking that as a final answer because I think for the understanding for the public and also for the training of our staff and frankly for the council, we may need to have a higher level of detail on the crosswalk, the disposition, and it may be that opticos doesn't provide that for us, but we would have our staff do that. I do not want to leave that request for action undone. I think it's going to be key for people to be able to move through the new code and also will raise the level of trust that we haven't lost, important bits of the code, inadvertently possibly. We'll know where all of it is in the new setup. So thank you for that. [Applause]. >> Mayor Adler: Did you have something you want to say? >> Yes. I agree with councilmember pool. We're going to need something in more detail that we can take back to our neighborhood. Like the ones here today have been here since day one. They know all about it. But you have neighborhoods [4:42:01 PM] that don't know anything about it, they're not coming here, they have no plans to come here, it's too far and they're not going to look on the internet and have no plan to do it. They have other things to do. So when we have the hoa and neighborhood meetings, that's a captive audience and we can explain it to them, but we have to show them. And that's a way I can do outreach and we should all be doing in our districts is doing outreach for those who have no plans to come to these meetings. >> Mayor Adler: Okay. Take us through the sovereign boards in phase II. >> So that's when we get down to the text working sessions and this begins a conversation really that begins in August and then runs all the way to the time when we get to the public hearings before the zoning and platting commission and planning commission. Our commissions are the one by ordinance that really need to make a formal recommendation to the city council for you to consider. And council can't consider the new code without their recommendations. So we want to have a series of working sessions. I know after talking with chair Oliver and chair weber that there may actually be special meetings that the commissions might call. We talk about different sections of the code, how the code might operate and having that level of detail so the commissions understand what is happening in different parts of the code, how would they operate that are different than maybe that would be happening today. That would take place as the public is certainly giving input, we would give that information also to the commission. But as we go through the summer of 2017 we can give some insight to the commission saying, these are the things that we have heard because when the public draft of the code comes out, it's not a perfect draft. There may be feedback that we hear that we might need to change a district or even [4:44:02 PM] add a district to address situations that we see across the city, and that will become more evident perhaps in the mapping portion. >> Mayor Adler: That might be additional time at one of the meetings that Eleanor was talking about when there was a combined cag and sovereign board opportunity in that. >> There could be. And that needs to be a discussion to have with those chairs. >> I have another question, Greg. Where does the sound check 2 fit in? >> I'm not sure we're going to call it sound check 2, but when we get to the mapping event, that release, that rollout, because that's where people want to see how the code is going to apply to property, that takes place in April. >> So I guess my concern is we have been hearing at the cag that there would be a similar event to sound check 1 that would test mapping, right? That we would be able to get public input on some testing of the mapping prior to a map being produced. So that's one of my biggest concerns about this timeline is all of a sudden we have the text of the code, draft text of the code, and then we have a draft map, but I don't see yet on on here where do we have a testing and getting that public feedback. We all know that whatever gets put on the table, everything after that is reaction to is rather than being proactive, which the public can be proactive in those testing sessions of the mapping before a whole map comes out. And so I guess I'm just wondering where that went to because we've been -- you've been talking about this for a long time. >> So we're having discussions and I think at the meeting on the 9th of [4:46:05 PM] January we're actually coming to the cag and going to be speaking about the mapping portion so the cag we'll be having a discussion, but also having a discussion with the zoning and platting commission and the planning commission as well. We're talking about how we would be applying the code. Yes, we did talk about trying to have a sample set of mapping, but as with having the discussions, listening to some of the comments that have been made by the cag and also talking a lot with our consultants, people really want to know not how you're going to test it, but what's really going to apply because every place in the city is not the same. Our zoning maps now as they apply zoning let's say for an sf-3 district is the same as you might apply in north Austin, central Austin, south Austin, but those areas are unique. So the idea is actually to bring out a draft map that will show how it would apply in different parts of the city so those discussions are not made in abstract, they're actually made as they might apply to my property. >> Mayor Adler: Okay. What is the city council doing during this period of time? >> Well, during this time the council will probably be -- have the opportunity to hear briefings from staff as well. There are working sessions that we would have. The topics I think still need to be fleshed out. You might hear concerns about fair housing or parking or compatibility standards, how would those apply? And staff would be prepared with the consultants to come to council and have those discussions. >> Mayor Adler: I think it would be helpful to have the cag suggest to the council topic areas. >> It probably would. And the cag is going to be the conduit that we'll be hearing the most feedback because those are the folks that the cag is going to be the ones -- people are coming forward, oh, we're most concerned about compatibility standards. Or we're most concerned [4:48:06 PM] about certain environmental tissues, green infrastructure. Or we're most concerned about traffic, how parking is going to work. So those are not predetermined topics. That's something that there needs to be a discussion and we haven't heard that from the public yet. >> Mayor Adler: Okay. Take us through phase III. I'm sorry, excuse me. >> Casar: Sorry. So first I just want to communicate again how happy I am that we're able to get together again. So thank y'all for taking out your time. And I appreciate especially to Ms. King's point the map being available sort of during this cag -- the cag is still in process for everyone because when I talk about the code to everyday people, they don't know what it is that we're arguing about unless it applies in some way to something that they care about, whether it be their neighborhood or some part of the city that they go to. And so I think that this makes it so much more tangible to them and I think it will improve our process because then we won't be arguing theoretically about a piece of code and arguing to push it further or ramp it back because somebody fears that it might be applied to a place where they don't think it's appropriate and so we should -- we could be arguing about a piece of text without context. So I appreciate the consultants and the staff working to get that together and that whole map together on a timeline that the cag can take input on it. And then I also appreciate that we can then show as well where the outreach and feedback portions show and then where going to the land use boards, getting into the nitty-gritty and figuring out on page 26, section 3, part 2, we need this amendment and that has its place as well in the timeline. I know we're headed there in phase III, but I appreciate this timeline because it let's the people in the community know when to organize around what and I [4:50:07 PM] think that would have been really hard without the map. So I know that it a big deal, but I appreciate that we can make it real for people so we are having a debate on that. >> And also during this time we're rolling on the maps, but we'll have these meetings in the districts and I'm sure there's going to be participation by council because citizens are going to come forward and want to maybe ask questions of the council offices themselves since they're the ultimate decision makers. Also because we're going out, we'll probably look and work with the council offices about finding the best locations, perhaps, for some of those meetings to occur because we want to make sure that we're locating and getting the most amount of input. >> Mayor Adler: Okay. Leslie and then Cesar. >> Pool: There was also a constituent from our last joint meeting that we had, I guess last month at the cag and the council and so forth that we have an opportunity in each one of the district to have an area that puts the code in play so people can come and see it in realtime, kind of like we did on burnet road for that -- where we described the different kinds of traffic calming that are available with the phv and buttons and that sort of thing. And I think there was some interest or had been -- y'all had talked about you were planning to do something like that in each of the different districts. Can you talk a little bit about that? >> So that engagement process, we're actually still working on it right now about how that would work. And at the meeting probably in January -- well, at the meeting in January we would probably have some more detail. So we're trying to kind of figure out how that would work to get the most input from the public, but I don't have an answer for you specifically how that might work today. [4:52:08 PM] >> Pool: Are you looking at having a model put in each one of the districts, though? Is that -- >> We're looking at how we would go out to those districts, looking at topics or looking at areas, but we haven't quite figured that all out right now. >> Pool: We'll be waiting to see what that looks like. >> Mayor Adler: Ann and then Cesar? Go ahead, Peter. >> I just wanted to add, just emphasize in phase II you see in February and March on the bottom row the combined district presentations, those are really about having the conversations around Austin, about the draft, the public review draft that comes out in January. And then the next piece from April to August are again having -- going out throughout the city to discuss the maps and the text. The thing about this is that you don't convince anybody about a new code with just the text. The map is the place where you gain confidence that in fact this new proposed text is much better because people can really place it and understand it as it relates to their properties, their neighborhoods and so forth. So to the point about demonstrating the maps or the testing, our intention is when we roll out -- in that february-march period when we're talking about the text, our intention is to have some examples of how the code works on the ground. It isn't -- I want to just make sure that folks understand. It's not on that. It's an illustrative example of how these new proposed Zones would work in a particular kind of situation. It isn't the proposed map [4:54:09 PM] for that location, but it's really more illustrative, and probably -- quite frankly, the testing as we understood the discussions, probably exactly what one would do if one were to dedicate a single sort of session to testing, but in this case it's actually what that two months of presentations of going out to explain the code. And then -- so the maps that come out in April would be actually done maps proposed for all of the rest of the areas across the city. And so in those first two months as we're having those conversations and, quite frankly, remember the staff for those maps to come out in April, the staff is working on those maps. I will tell you it doesn't happen overnight. There's a lot of factors that go into coming up with a really good map. >> Mayor Adler: Hang on for a second. [Indiscernible] First and then back to you. Ann, I'm sorry. >> Kitchen: This is just a quick follow-up. I think it would be helpful and I think you said earlier, Greg, that hurricane Patricia planning on -- Greg, that you were planning on doing this, but I think for our January meeting it would be helpful if we could put some more specifics, so I think what would be helpful to have the dates for these district-based -- the dates for all of these meetings. Now, I know that -- I say all. I know you might not be able to get every last one, but I think specific so that the public knows how many, where they're going to be and what dates would really help nail them down a little. The other thing that would be helpful, this graphic is really great. I think it's very helpful. I would suggest adding to it, maybe on the back or something, a place where you can describe in detail what you've been telling us today so that, for example, combined district-based [4:56:11 PM] presentations, you would write that, you would say here's the dates, this is what it encompasses. In a sentence or two. So that people can understand and have some expectation about what we're talking about doing. That doesn't mean you can't develop and learn as you go through the process, but it does mean that it gives people some expectation. So I just wanted to -- I know we were talking about that. I wanted to go ahead and say that right now as we were talking about the specifics that it would be good to see that in January at our next meeting. >> Mayor Adler: Okay. Cesar? >> Cesar Acosta, district 4, and actually councilmember kitchen is pretty much on point. I think it would be advantageous to list out at least in some respect milestones of how many meetings we would like to have and what areas of the city so we can better reflect on what populations might be getting the outreach that they need. And you know, whatever that says as far as how we can text actual lies those conversations as well, I think it helps to have base numbers on how many people we'd like to see, what demographics perhaps. And if nothing else, just to give a broad range of what we're hoping to expect by the end of January or by the end of March when phase II ends. >> Mayor Adler: Okay. Thank you. Eleanor? >> I just wanted to follow up with Mr. Park. So when you were talking about testing some scenarios in February and March, would you be presenting those to the cag since we wouldn't be having a full event? Where -- how would those be -- how would the testing that you're talking about in February and March before the map comes out, what would be the venue for getting that information to the public? >> That would be as part of a rollout of the public review draft. Again, just using these areas as kind of I will stray active areas that -- [4:58:14 PM] illustrative areas that plain how it might be applied in particular areas. >> What I'm asking specifically is would you be coming to the cag with those illustrative scenarios or were you -- or -- I'm trying to understand if there's anything that's going to come out prethe April 18th draft or that's kind of -- that shows the direction that you're proposing. >> In terms of the -- so I guess part of it is this testing that was -- again, that was discussed as we understood it was -- I don't know that there was a lot of clarity in terms of what testing means or the purpose of testing. And so as we've discussed it, it's really important that this -- this text that's coming together has some sort of context for how you can explain it to people for, well, what does it mean? So the map from our experience is really the place that you can best explain that. But the map itself is not going to be of the whole city from a realistic point of view, April will be the first that we would be able to really provide that. >> Mayor Adler: And your question being in addition to going out to the community, whenever you go to the draft with the draft code and the map illustrations, are you also going to schedule a cag or are you going to give the cag in essence a presentation that you are going to be giving to the geographic areas I think is the question? >> We certainly can do that. I think the cag needs to have some information as well as the commission's [5:00:14 PM] probably as well. What was the basis and how was the staff coming forward in >> Mayor Adler: Okay. Steven? >> Having not been in the earlier discussions on the testing ideas, I look at it hopefully as a way at which the planning commission and zap, we need training with the ideas before we're in the middle -- before we're kicking off the work sessions on mapping. And whether it's two weeks, a month. I don't know how it works into your work schedule. We're going to be knee deep in the text as well. [5:02:14 PM] We're going to be full. We've got to start working our minds around -- >> Mayor Adler: Take us through phase III and four and then we'll open it up. >> Phase III is now -- now the planning commission and zap >> The public is able, then to participate, just like with any code amendment, any zoning change that might occur. Done at a very large scale, we'll be working with the planning commission. There will be notices sent to every property owner to the city of Austin of notifying them. So we're talking about hundreds of thousands of notices for all the different parcels that are out there. This is where they're hunkering down and moving forward to get to public hearings. Hopefully those recommendations will be done by October. And then staff would prepare documents to get to the city council, and we would have to set hearings in anticipation for council action, but we would be basically going forward and making sure that we have heard the commissions recommendation so we could explain that to the city council. The public can understand that. We have to make sure the commissions are understanding what the recommendations are and they're reflecting correctly. The cag -- and I kind of skipped [5:04:17 PM] over them, but there are ambassadors at this stage. It might be writing input individually. We'll be talking certainly with other groups that are out there, but now it's handed off to the planning and zoning commission. There are still work sessions going on with council. You know, we might be talking about mapping issues or those topics, but those things would be still moving forward. So that is the essence of what that phase is. Then we get to phase four. The commission's recommendations are done. Those have moved forward to the city council. And now, council, you would be the ones having the hearings that are at the council level. The commission has had them. December 14th, as I said, so you would have the entire holiday to start working with these and the public as well. And then council would deliver December into January, going into February, perhaps. Then we would have the action by council on first reading very early in the year of 2018. Again, you would have the map at consideration. You would have the text at consideration, and then taking action on that staff would go back working with the consultants to better prepare the third draft of the code and to finalize the map to bring back for your action as we kind of anticipate that would begin in March of 2018. >> Okay. Susan? >> Yes, thank you, Susan Moffitt, joint subcommittee. Thank you for all your work on this. I think this is a very useful format for understanding the time line. I just have a suggestion for a [5:06:17 PM] language change. I'm not really comfortable with the term ambassador. I think it assumes that we're all going to represent something we haven't seen yet. I'm hopeful we'll all feel like being ambassadors for it, but I know people have given up a lot of time for this, and the work would have concluded that. So I don't think we can count on having every single member of this body being available during that entire time, and so as an alternate, I would suggest listing that as community resource as available. I think that is probably going to be a more accurate description of our role during that time. >> Jim, do you have any thoughts or suggestions, edits on this, instructions for staff coming back in January to the joint meeting? [No discernible speaker] >> I'm sorry. I was asking Jim if he has any thoughts, comments, directions. >> I have a lot of thoughts with the trustees and staff right now. Just a couple of thoughts. I think on January 30th, we probably ought to reserve bass center and have fireworks. A lot of people are waiting for that moment. As far as the seven months that cag is going to be communicating with the citizens, it has come up. I'm sure the consultants, we need to have minipeople friendly presentations where we can go out. What we're going to be giving on the 30th is going to be much for us to digest much less 900,000 [5:08:18 PM] austinites. We have a lot to do to get ready for the magic date. I know people are excited about it. >> Are you suggesting -- just as an analogy, we've done things like budget in a box, different things in a box. Are you talking the about the time of presentation that the cag members can use to go and talk to people? Is that what you mean? >> Right. We need to speak with a common tongue a bit. There's 18 different people and we have different ideas. We may be saying the same thing but it may not come out that way. >> Okay. >> It's two pieces. We keep talking about text and math. Text needs to be real simple. It needs transitional type things, but I will tell you right now 99% of people don't understand what we have now much less what we're going to get. We need something that very simply tells them what it's going to be, talking about permitted uses and the vertical and horizontal standard, site and developmental building standards. If we have a new district, a, B, C, they need to know if that a, B, C is going to be on their property. That's where we get the text to put it together. They need to have a better understanding of text before we sit -- sending a map first wouldn't tell them anything. You know what I'm saying? I think the three months or 2.5 months from January 30th to April 18th is going to be a really critical period for us to understand the code, the text, and to try to communicate that out, and the next half of that is going to be here's how it relates to you. >> I'm still trying to understand. I think that's an excellent thought. I'm trying to understand what [5:10:18 PM] you're talking about, what is the actual district presentations or if you're thinking that that's in addition to and before the district presentations or perhaps you're just thinking that it's a resource that people can have to use as they go to different meetings. I'm trying to get the details of what you're talking about. >> Well, actually we haven't sat down -- set down how we do that. >> Okay. >> We know we're going to spend a lot of time during those months, the 18 of us, working with the staff going out, how many meetings and how we do it. I just think we need simple and straightforward that the public can understand. Believe me, you understand. We go out there and start trying to describe the code to them, it's going to waste a lot of people's time. >> Okay. >> But I have total confidence. Not to say that in criticism. That's why I was keeping quiet. >> Generally, does this look good to you? >> Yeah, I think it's good. 17 months sounds like a long time. So we've been doing this for three years, so that's not long at all. >> Yes? >> Good evening. First, I apologize for arriving late, and I'm going to have to leave early. I apologize in advance for that. I guess my question is this: I look at this. It looks great, but not having seen the code and not seeing the extent of the changes that will be proposed, I am just hoping that after the code is released, those of us who have some understanding of current code and some understanding of the departure from it can reconvene and sort of relook at this and see, you know, does it look like this is workable? It could be that, yeah, we absolutely think we can do it, but it could also be it's more daunting or more extensive than we know at this point. So I just hope there's that [5:12:20 PM] flexibility built in for adjustments after we see what is proposed. >> My sense is that we would take this kind of as our guide, but absolutely when the code comes out, everybody goes, my god, this doesn't work anymore, then we won't force that. Let's go to Jose and then we'll come back. >> So I think a little bit about what Jim was getting at was we need collateral to put in people's hands that gives them a little bit of a legend or a tool kit that they can take to every meeting, that they can have next to them to look at code language or mapping. I think that's what we really need. >> Steven? >> The notion of translation of text between old codes and new codes that come up, I think it's the missing piece. Everybody understands it already, but I want to make sure it's said out loud. We need to see why we're doing it next to the translation. As we look at the beginning of each section, the intent of this section is X. We changed it because of these things. People need to see the dots connected from the code diagnosis to the prescriptions to the new code so that maybe they won't be so focused on the old text. They will be more focused on the outcome, the good we're going to get from the new code. We can live in so many other versions of how we assembled these words. We need to look at the outcome freaks diagnosis to why we changed it to this, that needs to be on the page with the draft. I don't know if that's possible. >> Pete sneer -- Peter? >> So the collateral material is answering to what Jim was saying and your point. As we've discussed it, we're looking at, you know, making [5:14:21 PM] sure that the explanation of the code describes what your code is as opposed to what it doesn't do as far as affordability and sustainability and how the new code moves the needle, does a better job than what your current code does. You're right, a lot of people don't even know what the current code is. So just to explain what's being proposed, I don't know how situate that. These materials coming along with the roll out, those sort of narratives need to be structured well, and they point to things we know are part of your existing policy foundations. Imagine Austin and neighborhood plans and so on and so forth that really provide the foundation of why is it being proposed differently than the way it exists today. And it may be impossible to do the mapping back and forth between old and new code on all the specific issues, but it might be helpful for us to identify either to you, the consultants -- and the us, I'm not sure who that is going to be. To say these areas, we want to know where it went. Some of those may be easier than others instead of saying please tell us everything. Maybe it's just this specific issue. That would be helpful. >> Yeah, let's go here to Dave. >> I want to repeat who words that Peter park said. Imagine Austin. What Steve was referring to does have a lot to do with mapping, the code now to the new code, the code diagnosis, et cetera, but the original document is imagine Austin. Personally, that's what I'm going to be looking at when I look at the new code. [5:16:26 PM] >> Go ahead. >> I wanted to respond to when you mentioned the formal notices that are going to go out to every property owner, every parcel owner. I think that, you know, oftentimes, you're serving a purpose of some legal notice of a change that affects you, but I think it's going to have to be combined with things like frequently asked questions, frequently answered questions, some type of what is this all about so that you just don't have a lot of calls to 311 that day. You may get something like that anyways, of course, but something that will translate what this is all about. They may have seen -- a person may have seen a news article over the last couple of years on this and then just moved on to something else. When they get that in their mailbox, and it sounds legally tick, it could be misconstrued and raise false alarms. I recall this recently with the south Austin combined neighborhood where everyone was notified of that planning processed. Signs start coming up about every other house as a result. So I would encourage the staff to work with communications experts or others on exactly how something like that is rolled out. >> Jim? >> The last time we went through this -- can you grab the microphone so people watching can hear you? >> We had an overly aggressive city attorney, even though half of the city wasn't affected, we wanted a letter to every resident in town. It was formal looking. [5:18:27 PM] Anytime someone gets something that looks meaningful or they don't understand it, you know, this is important. We need to make sure we do that. Don't make the same mistake. We spent a million dollars. I don't know if we had 311 now, but the calls were just continuing. >> Eleanor and then Susan. >> Just one other piece. It's back at our conversation. I didn't see where some of the other major boards and commissions were being included in this time line. For instance, the environmental commission, the design commission, the transportation commission. They're not all boards and commissions, but there's certain boards and commissions, I'm sure, that would feel like it was their right to be presented this as well. They've been heavily engaged in the last few years. So what I was looking at on this time line is what are pieces that I don't see on here. So how can -- where might they fit in. And one of the things that the exactly working group of the cag has suggested will be some joint meetings with key boards and commissions where we help to roll some things out and perhaps those boards and commissions might actually get the cag back some information, and then that would go to the council and PC and zap. So it wouldn't be just all over the place. The cag was a funnel for some of these other boards and commissions' recommendations. >> Do you want to respond to that Pete er -- Peter? >> Well, we've had conversations with cag. It was suggested that the cag wanted to have a separate [5:20:28 PM] process that would allow three large event meetings. One would be for stakeholders. Two, after the code has been released, participate and give comments. The second was inviting all the boards and commissions after they've had an opportunity to review the documents to share that with the cag. And the last was to come back and have the cag meet with zoning and planning in a joint meeting. This does not necessarily exclude that or include that because I think the executive working group of the cag had not yet finalized those discussions, but certainly that could be built into this very easily. >> I think it's that kind of detail we're hoping you come back with for the January meeting so we acknowledge those expectations so people will know. I want the other boards and commissions to be able to find themselves on here. >> Right. That's something I have to work certainly with the cag on. That's not something that I would -- the cag, I need to work with the cag, and the cag needs to basically figure out how we're going to work. >> So you have a meeting with the cag in December? >> We do. >> So maybe you can give that kind of recommendation and ideas to the staff and consultants so they can incorporate that in what they bring back to our meeting in January. >> I think one of the ideas is to have every single meeting on here reflected so people can see what's happening. >> Susan was next and Laura. >> Yes, I appreciate that we're legally bound to notify property owners, but I would hope that staff also has plans to do some outreach to renters because we're a majority renter city. We don't want to forget that. >> By our ordinance and notices, [5:22:31 PM] we're also required to send to utility customers. So most of them pay water bills or electric bills. So we would be sending them a notice as well. >> Lauren? >> Thanks. And I guess what I'm hearing is we're sort of identifying who all of our audiences are that we need to reach and the different ways we might approach communicating all these changes so that we do reach all of our different audiences. I think we can kind of group a lot of these comments underneath that. I had a couple of pieces of feedback that I wanted to make sure made it into this section that includes combined district presentations and public meetings. I think in addition to those high level meetings and, like pat mentioned, we want to make sure we're planning in there to have meetings with neighborhoods or with smaller areas of people that can easily attend and recognize places in their neighborhood. And then also I would like us to plan to have meetings based on issues as well so that if there are people particularly interested, and you acknowledged this early in the meeting, Greg, people worried about issues, they can come to a meeting where we drill down and talk about those issues. That would be helpful. >> And we don't have that prepared for you this evening, but we're talking about more topical meetings because there are some that may have a particular interest and want to have a more thoughtful discussion and not necessarily have other people coming to the meeting where they might feel slighted because we're only talking about that one topic. So we're talking about that as well. >> Melissa, did you have something? >> Yes. So I also wanted to -- maybe this is something that we can discuss through the executive work group for cag, but, you [5:24:34 PM] know, I don't want to fall it off the radar that we've done all this work and prescription papers and maybe some people have washed their hands of that, but I haven't. I know there's a lot of feedback that we've gotten from organized groups throughout the months. I'm sure staff has not had time to comb through all those things and include them in the conversation and the craft code that's coming out in January. I think when we're talking about cag roles, it might be important to look at our feedback papers and look at all the feedback we've received and how those issues were addressed. That may be a way to frame some of the scenarios that we get from staff in order to go out in the community and say, you know, this is -- to build off of what we've already done. And that's a general comment. I also had a question in terms of Spanish notifications and ways for other people to get notices and communicate feedback in a different language. >> So, Greg, can you respond to that a little bit? It's the question of closing the loop, which I think we need to do not only with cag, but will you respond to that specifically. Certainly in January when you come back, there has to be a way to demonstrate to the public that things they said were, in fact, heard. We need to put in the process some kind of closure issue, but the question that Melissa was asking in particular was, what happens to the work the cag did with respect to the prescription papers? How is that being taken into account? How is the cag hearing back from you and the consultants with respect to the work they did on that? >> I think that's important to certainly document what all went into that. [5:26:34 PM] We'll probably need to have a little more discussion about the cag making sure that they're being heard and the information we're presenting. The portion that dealt with groups, there were a lot of individual groups that have come before the cag and presented information. That's very important and part of what we'll probably bring back in January, is how those groups, whoever they are, how we can receive their information, making sure those groups are heard as well. We certainly plan on working with our public information office to make sure that the information that we're providing the public and that we're receiving can be in English and Spanish. So that's also something we've been talking about. >> Ann and Roger. >> Just a follow-up on that. I think in concrete terms, earlier we had talked about adding a document to go along with this. I don't mean a one pager or something. Describing how we're doing the meetings, I think we should include on that paper what the feedback loop is. People need to understand what's going to happen with their feedback, not only the feedback they've given us already in terms of prescription paper, but the feedback they're going to give us throughout this whole process. I think we need to explain that, and I think putting it in writing as part of the explanation would be helpful. >> Yes. Yes. Definitely. So we do plan and we've already had many discussions about that because people are going to take the time to go through this code, they want to know, you know, what happened to their comment as it comes forward. >> Roger? >> Yes, first of all, the time that's built into this thing, the timeline seems somewhat [5:28:35 PM] aggressive, but having been on this group now for about a year and, of course, attended meetings quite a bit prior to that, I don't want us to lose sight of the fact that we shouldn't let this April 2018 deadline slide, if it's at all possible, I would like to see us complete the task by that time. I think there's enough flexibility built into this schedule that if we need to slide it to allow some particular part of the public input to be greater, you know, there's certainly plenty of time to do that and to slide the schedule around. Folks have commented that it's aggressive. I agree that it is aggressive, but I think we've been at this for a while, and we ought to be able to complete it on time. Second thing, given that I am interested in doing that, I'm already getting requests from groups I' already spoken to once about this to come back and give them updates. I think the piece that Jim was talking about, as far as the outreach piece that explains all of this in fairly simple language, if we could have that as close to the time that the text rolls out as possible so that we can get out there and do our public outreach so we're not just saying, well, yeah, the coach comes out, but if you wait another month or two, we'll have a nice piece for you. I think we need to have that ready to roll at the same time the code comes out so we can all get out there and have something that the public can understand that we can present. >> You only have one shot to make a first impression. >> I think the information, not just for the cag, but for council. It needs to be available for the public as well, if they want to go online, just to have an understanding that there's something for everyone that each of you are being sent out to [5:30:37 PM] talk to groups. That's also for staff. We need to all have that same information. It's not just the code being presented, but how do we work with it and the simple terms for the tool kit. I think we've already been talking about how that would come about. >> Yes. >> I apologize if you covered this already. There's about a year from when the official draft comes out and the first reading council vote. Is there an understanding that there will be different drafts during that time or as people are giving their input. What was to that draft? Does it change? If you can explain it as council member kitchen was saying, how does that loop close between what people are saying at different meetings, boards, commissions to that draft that gets presented? >> On the handout, there's a line that speaks to deliverables. So the public draft would come out. It's stated on here for January 30th, the accompanying map would come out April 18th. They both come together in a second draft that would present it on here as the zap and planning commission draft. That would be in August. So you would have a map and the second draft based on comments that would be provided. That's a second draft. That second draft would be presented to the city council for first reading action along with the map -- >> With the PC -- >> That's the PC version and with annotations, so the council understands, and the third draft -- so there are three drafts. >> Pause for just a second. The question being asked, I think, is where are the comments [5:32:37 PM] that are reflected post April incorporated into a draft that the council sees? And I understand your answer to be that is the PC annotation that would accompany the code that gets to the council. >> And then the third draft is the second and third meeting. >> Okay. Mayor pro tem? >> I apologize for having sunglasses on. That may be part of why I'm having trouble seeing how much time there is. I have a migraine. How much time is there for feedback between the first draft and second draft? I thought I heard the explanation earlier that the maps that would be released first are not the maps. They're I will lues straytive -- illustrative maps. How much time is there for public feedback before there's a second it ration, just to get back to the question being asked. >> The maps come out in April. So you will see both map and code. They're available in mid-april. The public has the ability through August to make comments certainly on the map and the code. When we get to the planning commission and the zoning planning commission, that will be in September and October. So you have the time through April through August where we'll be receiving comments. >> But where is the time blocked off that staff are going to take that feedback? Are you just taking -- it looks to me you're taking feedback right up until the time the new draft is presented to the planning commission. That doesn't -- typically that's not the way things work. You need time to take the [5:34:38 PM] feedback and evaluate it and revise your draft. >> So from the time we first start receiving comments, staff and the consultants will be looking at and revising code. People will be coming forward saying there's some typos here or we'll start seeing along the way that there's sections in the code -- because we'll be hearing comments back, whether they come from the planning commission, public, the cag may be bringing it to our attention as a hearing feedback, it changes along the way. So February, March, April, may, June, July, all the way through August, we'll be working on the commission draft. As far as the map is concerned, that adds that later and we may be changing that as well, but it's a continual process. It doesn't stop along the way where staff is pausing to wait. We're working on that all through the summer. >> So could I -- I don't know if you finished, but I'm not understanding either or maybe I'm just not understanding. I'm sorry. Where it says here PC zap text and draft map two, that's not just putting the first text and the first map together. That's actually making changes at this point that reflect people's feedback? >> Correct. >> Okay. And that happens in August. >> Yes. >> And that's to the mayor pro tem's point and changes the draft. Is that right? >> Yeah. I think what I would like to emphasize again is I think council member kitchen, as you mentioned, this is the picture that's really backing out at a high level. So the comment is very much on point, mayor pro tem, that there will be a point at which throughout the February through [5:36:38 PM] August we'll be reviewing the comments. Is this something that's a quick typo fix we can make. We forgot a period in a sentence. Right? Easy thing to pick up. We'll be looking for, is that a question we need to look at? Through all those months, we'll be looking at these comments and questions and answers. There will be a point in mid July where we'll say, we have to take these comments and incorporate as many of those as we can and respond back to the public when that PC draft comes, what happened to the comments. But we're not closing the comment period. Comments coming after that, they may reflect a comment someone else made. They may be a new comment that's really easy to pick up and we'll incorporate that into the PC zap. When that PC zap comes out, there will be a list of comments that we have not had a chance to address. What we don't want to do is close that comment period. We don't want to just close it in late June or mid-july because people, as they get a deeper understanding, as they start to understand the mapping, that new things will come up. The important thing for us to recognize is when that PC zap draft comes out, there will still be comments coming in. That's why across the top, we really expect there to be comments from February up until -- you know, even through the second and third reading draft, that commenting will be coming in. So what we talked a lot about is finding a way of being able to really track those and be able to report back to you all as council to cag, to the commissions, what are we doing with those, what's happening to those comments. >> Okay. >> I think this goes back to all three of your points earlier. [5:38:38 PM] I would really ask the staff and consultants to hear that. When this first draft comes out, that y'all have been doing work for many, many months, and so that public comment hadn't just evaporated as steam but actually, clearly to be able to articulate and show people how all the work has been done has formed that first draft. So when you get to the second draft, how all that work that's been done and all the conversation that has been had has been addressed, whether it's been incorporated or not but has been addressed in the second draft because, you know, sure, if you look at this timeline, it bing looks like it's just under two years, but when you think about the public comment that y'all have been incorporating, really, this is the tail end of a really extensive public comment process, but it may not feel or sound that way unless we have really clear communication back and forth about how that has been made manifest. So I think while this is just a year and a half, really, y'all have been doing so much work. I think that is on our staff and on our consultants to be able to relay back to you all how your existing and long-going public comment has formed the draft. To get back to the point earlier on the board and commission's point, I would urge as the conversation continues about how to incorporate those members, that we try to consolidate to where the public should go to do their advocacy work. I would hate for this to become a scrambling of people need to get to water and waste water and run over to the environmental commission. This is such an important lift that we need it to be really clear where people need to go and where the levers of power are so people are not frustrated or disappointed that they went to a hearing that really wasn't the hearing they were supposed to go to. As long as we can make sure people are communicating with the cag here between February and may and going to PC and zap afterward and coming to the council for them to know that's [5:40:38 PM] where the decisions are going to be made so that we don't have people frustrated or misdirected as to where that advocacy is being done and where the decisions are happening. This is such an important thing to get done that we really want people to be clear about where it is they need to go. So as you work with those commissioners, the work is very important. My $0.02 are, let's not set it up so people are strung to ten or 12 different board and commission meetings. Let's get the public together so they know where to go and when. >> Something just occurred to me, when we go out, whether we're called ambassadors or what, this has been going on for years and there's a lot of ideas that have been thrown out. We've met with a lot of groups. There's a lot of things -- I don't want to call them myths, but we need to get them off the table. [Audio difficulties] The first question they asked was, we heard you're going to build corridors and come in 1,000 feet from each corridor. [Audio difficulties] When you come in 1,000 feet, that's concerning. We need to get that off the table so we can look at the at the affected parts. Those are the type of questions you've been getting too as you go out. >> In fact, sue was suggesting -- [overlapping speakers] >> Sue was suggesting -- [overlapping speakers] [Audio difficulties] >> There's consideration to putting video on a publicly available -- addressing a subject or a topic or something that people would be able to access. I think that's a good point, [5:42:40 PM] Jim. >> I apologize. I have another meeting at 6:00. I'm going to have to leave. >> Thank you. >> What do you think? At this point, if there's -- yes? >> Just one more thing. I wasn't sure if we closed the loop on this or maybe I department hear it. There's a question earlier about the mapping and about whether or not it made sense -- test mapping -- I think I heard the answer that we're not going out to the public with a test map, but I also heard there would be something presented or discussed might be a better word with the cag in January. >> That your question or is that something different? >> I think we'll need to see what the presentation is in January about the methodology and circle back around. I think that would be the good time. I would just say that in the sound check one there was some test mapping, but that was very difficult to read graphically. It was a fuzzy reproduction. It was very difficult to read the values of the different colors and how that might actually be applied. So you might have thought that you've done this already, but, one, we didn't have the test to be able to understand what t4 and t5 was, but it was very difficult to read. So I'm just encouraging you that there's some kind of interim step. >> Okay. >> In which we have some kind of samples of what it might look like that are easily graphically read by the public. >> Okay. So that just gives us an [5:44:41 PM] opportunity to provide some feedback just on understanding what the map looks like and that sort of thing. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I heard something that went a little past that. I may have heard it wrong, but as you laid out that code, just had the code before you have the map as part of presenting that code, there would be some illustration of the application and how that written code applies to the mapping so that there's a mapping illustration interim step, as you were describing it, as part of that roll out of the text itself, just so the people can see how it gets applied. And that made sense to me. Yes? >> I want to just expand a little bit on that piece there. We have a place where we have put the code in operation. It would, in fact, illustrate it even more completely. I think that's why some residents were looking to ask for that. We have a model piece of code put on the ground in each of the districts. >> Yes, Steven? >> Thank you. Mr. Mayor, you made a comment earlier about first impressions, and I'm piggybacking on Jim's comments earlier. I think maybe in the cag meeting in January, maybe it's separate from that throughout the process. I think we need to continue to help people set a common as possible level of expectations for this process. In this room, everybody has a different expectation as a result of what the new code is going to be from curing cancer to not even a cold. So we have to assume that we -- you have to assume we know nothing and explain it all to us as painful as it may be because you've been doing it for so [5:46:41 PM] long, so often through this process. People need to understand when we say mapping, is it rezoning? Is it planning? Is it some kind of planning? What happens to planning after mapping? Because are also thinking long term. What does this mean two years from now? Do we get it right the first try? I think these are questions we need to ask ourselves out loud so we don't assume the first time we do this we got it perfect and if we don't get it perfect, we need to throw it all away. I think those kind of honest conversations need to be said out loud so that we can all participate at a level of, yeah, this is a better code. Not this is the most perfect code and we'll never finish it. Also, what happens to my neighborhood plan after mapping? Or will there be rezoning cases in the first year after? Is that a reasonable expectation? Some people think there's no rezoning after this. Those are just comments people have in the vacuum of no other information. As much as we can have these honest conversations before the text is in front of people when they immediately become distracted, let's try as hard as we can to do that in the limited time we have left. It will help us in our public meetings. >> I think that's a real good point. So in terms of looking forward, you guys, cag is meeting in December. Hopefully you can work with the consultants and staff to flush out a little more detail following this timeline. You have a meeting on January 6th, which I think may be -- or January 9th, somewhere in that time frame that I think is a more substantive meeting. We need to put a date to it as quickly as we can, the joint meeting between the council and [5:48:42 PM] the cag, so people can put it on their calendars. You will finalize and come back to us for a final version of this that we can follow. >> I think staff is ready to say that it would be January 11th. I know my consultant team would be here. >> January 11th. >> So it's Wednesday, January -- >> Okay. >> I know the council has a retreat that I understand is in the morning. >> I think we're scheduling the retreat to be over at 3:30. >> 3:00. >> 3:00. >> You would have time to come back. >> We would have time to come back here. If you start at 4:00, we should be able to make that as well. After that, maybe there are two things we can do. We can bless this kind of schedule, but I really do like what Steven just suggested. Maybe it's at that meeting where we can -- maybe you guys can help identify what those questions are because you're going to know better than we are what those questions are. Let's just make a list of those kinds of questions that we could have a public hearing on. Let's get everybody on the same page kind of thing. I think that would be really helpful. Those two things at the next meeting. >> Before we close, I just wanted to highlight again and ask if anybody had any other comments. We said earlier we might discuss in more detail -- I think everybody said what they wanted to say, but I wasn't sure. This is the section for the cag on the cag report and hand-off to the PC and zap. Did we get all the comments about that? >> Lauren? >> Thanks for bringing that back up. My initial reaction, actually, was that was really fast for the cag to have a report and hearing some of the thoughts on the concerns with zap and PC, that maybe it made sense for -- my [5:50:43 PM] colleagues may not like me much for proposing this -- but to extend the cag feedback period into August to overlap with some of the PC and zap sessions and help sort of pass that torch on and give us a little more time to aggregate all of the comments that we've received and put them into a useful document or whatever that ends up being. Just a thought. >> I would just say that seems like a good idea, to have that. A little more time for our report and a little more time for the overlap, you know, with the PC and zap to really be able to transfer some information. >> Think it would be helpful for the cag to define what is in that report so there's a comment of expectation for what is in that. >> Roger? >> I was just going to say I actually agree with Lauren's suggestion on that. I think it does make sense for that timeline to overlap to that extent. >> Okay. >> Well, I was going to mention, mayor, that we actually have two more meetings. We have a meeting November 28th and December 7th. So we'll have two more opportunities to talk to staff about the scheduling. >> Good. Good. Good. Let's open up the floor. Anything else that anybody thinks we should raise or discuss? >> That sounds fine. The only concerns I might have is if the cag is looking to staff to try to write or draft that report, I think there may be concern on my part because we'll probably be engrossed in trying to maintain the momentum of drafting the commission and zap document for them to receive [5:52:46 PM] and to start considering at the beginning in September. So I just want to make sure that's known to the cag because we'll be hustling to get all of those documents and make sure that we meet the time line for zap and commission. >> Is there a way for you to be writing that report as you go through that period of time? >> Well, we'll be writing the code. I'm talking about the cag report. I'm not exactly sure what that would be, but if there's an expectation that staff would be writing and drafting that response for the cag at the same time, trying to finish the draft of the code, I think that might be difficult for us. >> I don't think there's any intention for the staff to have to serve the cag. The cag is perfectly capable of producing its own report. >> Okay. >> I was just going to say, if you need help, we'll get you help outside the group that's doing the code. We'll be happy to do that. >> Peter? >> On the cag timeline, I think we just want it emphasized that our hope that the cag reporting to the PC and zap, in terms of sort of your collective comments, our hope was that that would be available to the staff and the consultants to inform what goes into the draft that will be going to the planning commission. In other words, we wanted to get the cag's point of view to inform what is actually going to come before the planning commission and the zap as representative of the hand-off, if you will. So just in terms of the timing, right, no one on the staff, no [5:54:48 PM] one on the team is going to be able to get this document prepared for the PC. It has to be -- anyways, that's part of what is built into this timeline. >> And I leave this for you guys to discuss. The question for me was, is there a temporal progression of the report to get the information over time so if they extended past this day, into July or August, you weren't waiting for all of the information coming back from the cag but those last pieces of the cag. So the bulk of it you would have. I leave that for a conversation for you to have. >> I don't want to promise anyone, but the three of us are going to meet tomorrow to talk about doing an online poll about doing the prescription papers. We did that for two of the prescription papers. We're going to go back and do it for the other ones and have one big poll where people can vote. Support, partly support, not enough information, do not support, comments. We'll be able to provide that to you guys. >> Anything else? >> I would like to thank all the cag members who are here for all the hard work you guys have continued to do out of your own initiative and free time over and over again. It's impressive from a PC level to see the work you do. >> [Laughing] >> Again, from the council, thank you all for the time that you have invested. As I look at this, we have once again gone to the well in a short period of time you've done a lot of work. Thank you for that. We'll stand adjourned. Thank you. [Event concluded]