Economic Opportunity Committee Meeting Transcript – 12/12/2016 Title: ATXN 24/7 Recording Channel: 6 - ATXN Recorded On: 12/12/2016 6:00:00 AM Original Air Date: 12/12/2016 Transcript Generated by SnapStream ================================== [2:17:32 PM] >> Troxclair: Hello and welcome to our December meeting of the Economic Opportunity Committee. We will let’s see go ahead and entertain a motion for the approval of the minutes from the October 10th meeting. Have you had a minute to look over them? Houston: I’ve got two corrections. Under number one, approval minutes it was for the meeting on August the 8th instead of October the 10th. And then down in adjournment it should say Vice Chair Houston adjourned, because you weren’t at the meeting. And so with those two corrections I move adoption of the minutes. Pool: I second. Troxclair: Okay there’s a motion and a second. All those in favor? Passes unanimously. I don’t see anybody signed up for citizens communications, so unless I’m missing anybody I will move on to item. Oh I’m told that one of our commissioners needs to leave early, so I think the plan is to take up item 4 first and then item 6. Well I guess we can go ahead and adopt the meeting schedule for next year really quickly, but then we will take up item 4 and item 6 and circle back to item 5. Is that correct? Okay, sounds good. So item number 3, adopting the committee calendar for next year for the Economic Opportunity Committee. I think we have, right now it looks like we tentatively have a meeting scheduled every month, I don’t think that we need to be meeting every month. So we are going to propose, or I guess somebody else could propose if there is a motion to meet March 6th, May 8th, August 7th, and November 6th. So five meetings total next year and strike all of the other tentatively planned meetings. Houston: Second, I think its four meetings. Troxclair: Oh that is only four meetings. Houston: Thats okay, we can have a special called meeting. Troxclair: Okay, and then we will have a special called meeting if anything pressing comes up, we can always schedule a meeting on short notice. Troxclair: Is there any debate? Houston: Did you make a motion? Troxclair: I think I made a motion. Pool: I’ll move. Troxclair: Council member Pool moves adoption of those dates, and Council Member Houston seconds. All those in favor? Okay, passes unanimously. So again, we will just keep March 6th, May 8th, August 7th, and November 6th. That brings us to item number 4, which is discussion of possible action regarding the proposed revisions to the minority-owned, women-owned, and small business procurement program ordinance. And there is one citizen signed up to speak, Susan. Sorry, Veronica. Is it okay if we -- >> Hello, my name is Susan. I moved to Austin as a civil engineer back in 1997. 2 1/2 years ago I began my own engineering firm. We were all aware of the disparity study -- that it was progressing. We weren't aware, we were surprised to see the ordinance and the revision numbers to the goals. We feel that those numbers will significantly impact our opportunity as minority firms here in Austin. And what we're requesting -- speaking for myself, in dialogue with other people that do the same thing I do, we would like some time to vet how they determined and came up with these numbers to see if they are fair and representing the actual numbers for the city of Austin. The program has -- I've watched it grow since 1997 and I think it's done amazing things. It's part of why I decided to start my own woman-owned business. And I think taking this step today, or that ordinance, would take a big step back. [2:19:33 PM] That's all I have to say. >> Troxclair: Thank you. Veronica, do you want to give us an overview of the agenda item? >> Absolutely. Committee members, Veronica, director of the small and minority business resources department. The disparity study was released in March and accepted by council. As a part of that process, we started to work on revised ordinances to bring back to you. The current ordinance sunsets on December 3 1st, 2016. We had planned to bring back a revised ordinance. I heard concerns like you just heard from one of our engineering firms. I met with them last week and heard their concerns, and have agreed to extend the sunset of the ordinance without updating the goals to allow them time to review the disparity study and the impact. You've received a revised draft of the ordinance that extends the sun Seth of the program until March 31st, and we will bring forward another revision to the ordinance for you to consider updated goals. And this is on your city council agenda for this Thursday. So that draft will be delivered as late backup as well to the entire council. >> Troxclair: Okay. Councilmember pool. >> Pool: This gives us three to four months for you to work with the stakeholders and come back with revised goals. >> Our goal is to allow them time to look at the information in the disparity study. The discussions we've had are about how outside counsel derived the numbers, and they want a better understanding of the study. We're taking time for that. The disparity study is 700 pages of information and there's a lot of data in there that's shown in [2:21:33 PM] different ways, so we want to be able to answer the questions that they have and give them a chance to really delve into that information. >> Pool: Thank you. >> Troxclair: Councilmember Casar. >> Casar: Thank you for bringing that forward as an option for folks. If it's appropriate, I would move to have the sunset provisions moved from the end of this year to March 31st of '17 as you laid it out to us. >> Troxclair: Okay. There's a motion and a second. Councilmember Houston, do you have some questions? >> Houston: I think we can go ahead and address this. I have some more concerns about the ordinance as it's laid out. >> Troxclair: And before -- I guess I have a couple of general questions. So the numbers that are being updated -- so based on the study, you're amending the numbers based on the results of the study and -- to be more reflective of what you see the program needs to have as its goals in order to provide equity among the groups, is that correct? >> So the study took a look at availability and expenditures for the mbe/wbe community. The information was given to our outside counsel, who took the information and applied a methodology looking at both our available of mbes and wbes, and our expenditures to come up with the proposed goals that he's given us. So we as a department have taken that legal advice and are putting it forward in the ordinance for your consideration. >> Troxclair: Okay. So there hasn't been any further adjustment of the numbers. These are just straight from the study. >> That's correct. And -- let me clarify. The numbers are based on the study. You won't find the numbers in the study. The study points to availability and expenditures, and we hired [2:23:35 PM] legal counsel to put those into goals. >> Troxclair: Okay. And I'm guessing the number that the previous speaker was concerned about is the women-owned business enterprises being reduced from 13% to 9%? >> Specifically, the concern that I've heard from our WBE engineers is the professional services goal. That was the WBE goal proposed to go from 15.8% to 6.7%. And as you can see -- I have all of the goals on one chart. I'm happy to distribute it to the council, I know it's divided into four ordinances so it's a little complicated. If you look across the board, some goals went up, some goals went down. But it's based on the data and we're trying to keep it as close to the data as possible. >> Troxclair: And you'll use the additional time between now and then to talk with the community about their concerns? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Troxclair: Councilmember pool. >> Pool: I just had a quick question for miss Laura, can you provide us with the engagement percentage for each of the different goals for the different minority business enterprises? For example, professional services, it was 1.9% and it's being lowered to 1.6%. Is there a number that shows what the participation was for african-american-owned business enterprises in professional services. >> Yes. The disparity studies includes expenditures by group and gender for each industry, and by commodity code, so it reflects it in many different ways, in addition to the availability. >> Pool: I think those two data points would be really important for us to see next to how these changes are being offered. >> Absolutely. >> Pool: Okay, thank you. >> Mmhmm. >> Troxclair: Before we take a vote, I know -- okay, councilmember Houston. >> Houston: I've got a couple of questions. On the backup that we received, [2:25:36 PM] I'm sure this is in the current ordinance, but we use things like good old boy network, which it seemed the whole thing needs to be rewritten. That's not something that you -- I would find in a code. But then on . . . Let's see, page 3 of ten we talk about women under definitions 46, we talk about resident alien. Is that a legal term that we have to use, because it's offensive to me to talk about resident aliens. So those are some of the concerns that I have as I look through there. There's a lot of duplication in the consultant findings, starting back at 2013. We repeat that multiple times. If we're going to do a cleanup, I would really like to clean up some of the things -- you know, if that's a legal term we have to use, I need to know that. I'm really offended by resident alien. We talk about people presumed to be socially disadvantaged. I'm not sure -- do I not have grace or etiquette? When we're talking about socially disadvantaged, what does that really mean, and is there a better word that we're -- is that the word we used when we crafted this ordinance in the beginning, and now it's a better term to use to describe what it is that -- what we're trying to do. And I think that may be most of the things. But we repeat those things over and over again. So if we're going to give some more time, if you need more time to just tweak the language so that it is more relevant to today's time rather than whenever it was passed, I'd be willing to give you even a few more times -- I mean, extend it. Some of those things really do bother me. I need time for you to explain to me if we have to use those kinds of terms. >> Sure. My understanding is that there will legal justification for -- there is legal justification. I'm going to ask the city [2:27:37 PM] attorney to address some of those. Might not be able to address them today, but, a conversation we can continue as we move forward. >> Good afternoon, Cindy Crosby, assistant city attorney. It looks very repetitive because the program is divided into four different chapters, specifically so that if one chapter is challenged, the other chapters could remain in place. So it looks repetitive because it's chapter for construction, chapter for professional services, nonprofessional services and commodities. So we want them to mirror the same findings and that helps defend the ordinance if it's ever challenged. On the term of "Good old boys," I can understand and we can rework that sentence. That is something that the courts have often referred to those kinds of discriminations being part of a good old boy network. So it's something that has come from the courts. It's not something that we made up. As far as for the definition of woman, currently the definition for minority includes that it's presumed to be socially disadvantaged. So that way the woman or the minority doesn't have to come forth and prove that there's discrimination in the workplace, or discrimination in the marketplace, that there's a disadvantage because of their status. So we can also look at the resident alien. That's current code, but it doesn't mean it has to stay that way, so we can work on that as well. >> Houston: Thank you for that. And if we give a definition of socially disadvantaged, it may be in the definitions. I just didn't have that. So if it's defined in the -- that makes it clear. But if you just read it, as I did, and it says socially . . . >> It says a woman is a person who is of the female gender and who is presumed to be socially disadvantaged. I thought the same thing when I read it. [ Laughing ] >> Houston: It just kind of went -- what does that really [2:29:40 PM] mean? So if you all can get that done by the end of March, that's fine. But I would like to see some of that cleaned up so it's clearer to everybody that reads it. >> Troxclair: Okay. Thank you. And I know that there's a speaker here from our mbe/wbe committee. Margie, were you wanting to speak on this item? Oh, and I see Alisa, too. Were you wanting to speak on this item before we take a vote on extending the sunset date? >> We can. >> Troxclair: You don't have to. [ Laughing ] >> Good afternoon, I'm with the mbe/wbe small business enterprise procurement committee. We did talk about it a little bit at our committee meeting. We, too, raised the very same questions in regards to that. But we didn't have a city attorney present in order to be able to clarify what it all meant, which was obviously used today. And we, too, were questioning about the percentages changing and were told it was based on how the reports came out. So we really were just -- we wanted to go ahead and put it before you all, but we're certainly open to reviewing it ourselves. >> Certainly appreciate the questions, because I remember very well in committee last month I asked the very question you did, councilmember. So as much as we can clean up some of that language, I, too, welcome it. Because I think that that language is a little bit outdated. But obviously, we have to stay within the context of what the legal requirements are, so I know we will. The opportunity for us to extend the date on the sunset is certainly welcome, because it will give us just one more last pass, if you will, for the committee to also take maybe another little look at it. [2:31:41 PM] We can hear from the engineering firms if they need to come to our next meeting. By all means, this is probably not a bad idea. So, thank you. >> Troxclair: Okay. Well, are there any other questions? All right. All those in favor of voting to extend the sunset date to the end of March, please raise your hand. Okay. That passes unanimously. Thank you. And Margie, if you want to actually -- Margie and Alisa, we can move on to item number 6 and get an update from y'all. >> Margie, of course. Margie will go ahead and speak to the issue. She has been working closely with the committee to come up with this resolution and certainly the committee itself has already vetted this various times. I think Margie can give us the best overview on it and hopefully you will support our resolutions to move forward. We've been waiting quite some time. We appreciate what you can do. >> Thanks. I don't have the agenda in front of me. Which one would you like me to address? >> Troxclair: Update on recent resolutions and from the committees. >> I'm going to start -- I think you all have a copy about the recommendations. So the first one would be about local preference, when it comes to local government procurement. And that is not something that we can set as a committee as a recommendation. What we're trying to put forth to you all is that it be put on our legislative agenda for the city of Austin. Oh. >> Troxclair: We don't have a copy up here. I think Mona is going to get some copies for us so we can look over them. >> Okay. Would you like me to read it? >> Troxclair: Sure. >> Texas local government code 2719051b allows municipalities [2:33:41 PM] to consider bids from local businesses if the construction contract is less than 100,000 and the local bidder is within 5% of the nonlocal bidder local preference. And this all has to do with construction, by the way. Whereas the construction contract amount has not changed in over ten years and the market inflation should be a consideration, an evaluation and application of this amount. Now, therefore be it resolved, mbe/wbe small business advisory committee encourages the Austin city council to adjust the amount in order to increase contracting opportunities for small businesses. >> Troxclair: Thanks for reading that for us. Do you have a copy of that? Councilmembers, do you have any questions about this? I know -- remind me -- were there any legal issues with making this change? >> Yeah. Well, it can only be made at the state level. We can't even do it at the city level. So it has to be put on the legislative agenda. >> Troxclair: I'm sorry that we didn't have copies of this. >> It's okay. >> Troxclair: I want to make sure -- >> That's why it's a recommendation. >> Troxclair: It's a recommendation to add this, the proper channel -- I know your resolution speaks to the proper channels, which would be adding this to our legislative agenda [2:35:43 PM] so that the city goes to the state and asks for this to be updated. >> Mmhmm. For various things. One that it be in line with, you know, the inflation amounts. It's really more to be in line with inflation amounts. >> Troxclair: So do you have -- like you said right now, it's $100,000. If the construction contract is less than $100,000 and the local bidder is within 5% of the nonlocal bidder. Do you know what those numbers may be updated to if inflation is taken into consideration? >> No. >> Troxclair: Okay. I'm sure we can find that out. Councilmember pool. >> Pool: I appreciate y'all's following this and making this recommendation. Have you contacted anyone in the Travis county delegation or someone who -- maybe the chair of the committee at the legislature who, you know, would be bringing forward something like this? The reason I'm asking is that may be a straighter path than adding it to our legislative agenda. We have some pretty big issues on the legislative agenda, and it may be that this would get lost. And it would increase your chances for it to be heard if you would have a conversation with the folks at the legislature, too. I mean, you certainly -- >> We certainly -- we're, of course, trying to follow the protocol and not do anything that would in any way, shape, or form catch you guys off guard. We were instructed that this was probably the best path for us and that is why it's been brought to your attention first. >> Pool: And let me clarify, as private citizens you can go and talk to them about whatever topic you want to. Putting this into those city's -- legislative agenda, it would come to us and we would put it in. I'm just thinking if there is additional work already being done during prefiling, for [2:37:44 PM] example, there might be a bill up there already -- >> That we can -- >> Pool: Yeah. You can show your support for it, and other folks in the small business community, the minority and women-owned business community around the state could come together. I'm pretty sure we're not the only ones who are concerned about it being so low, right? So there may be already an effort at the state level to update them. I just don't know. And you can -- so two things. One, yes, I think this is, indeed, the current protocol, bring it to us here. But you also are able to do it as private citizens. >> Thank you. We will certainly share that back to the committee as well. >> So let me make sure we're clear that this is not something our city wants to take up? >> Pool: No, I wasn't saying that. I don't know if it's -- Laura, is this in our legislative agenda at this point? >> No. >> Pool: I don't think it is. So we'll take it back. The chair and I are both on the ad hoc legislative committee for the city -- for the council. We'll definitely take it back. I just am thinking that this is real specific and it may be that your efforts to bring it attention to it earlier than maybe we can at the legislature might be beneficial. >> To some extent -- pardon me. >> Troxclair: Go ahead. >> So some extent, I clearly understand what is being suggested and I certainly appreciate the opportunity for us to have yet a different pathway for this. That said, if the committee -- our committee -- we'll take it back to our advisory committee and ensure that the committee is on board with them wanting to take it if they want to take it outside as private citizens to their immediate and figure out where we could take this legislatively on our own, if you will. If that path was taken, from the [2:39:44 PM] perspective of this body and our city council, you would not be offended if we did that? Because that's the last thing we want to do. We don't want to offend our councilmembers and certainly don't want to catch you off guard with any activity that would be happening. >> Troxclair: Yeah, I certainly appreciate you bringing this to us. It's something that we have talked about as a council on the dais when we have contracting issues. There have been questions about, we'd rather use a local company, why are we not able to do that. So for me, I will take the impression of the dais. But for me, I would be comfortable in forwarding this recommendation so that like councilmember pool said, we could potentially add it to the agenda. I think she was just offering an additional -- the city is going to be dealing with a lot of issues at the capital between ride-sharing and Austin energy, and a lot of other things. I think she was just saying she doesn't want this to get lost. We can add it to the agenda, and then there would be a multipronged approach. I also wanted to mention that the Texas municipal league might be another good avenue for us. I know that I attend tml meeting meetings on occasion. I believe our mayor is the official appointee to tml and that might be a good place to gather support from our municipalities or bring it to the attention of the legislature as a whole. >> And certainly tml would have a clue as to what other municipalities are struggling with this. >> Troxclair: Definitely. >> That's a great start. Thank you. >> Troxclair: Councilmember Houston. >> Houston: It's not either/or, it's both and. I think tml is a great option to start to see how many others they have in this kind of discussion, and how we can partner with them. But I understand as you go to places as private citizens, sometimes they ask, what is the city's position on this? [2:41:44 PM] And so I think that's what you all are trying to gauge. >> Exactly. >> Houston: You can go as a private citizen, but where is the city of Austin on this. You don't want to get cut off because there is no support. I think I'm hearing that they'll take it up the chain of command. >> Great. And the other recommendation from the committee is about local preference and defining what local preference is. Having it for five counties, bastrop, Caldwell, Hayes, Travis, and Williamson counties. Councilmember Houston, I think you suggested we do it tiered, when we last presented it and brought it before this council. And our membership was fine with having it tiered, if that be the choice. >> Troxclair: Okay, great. And so this basically is a similar issue, but the local preference right now I believe is defined as the Austin city limits. In this resolution, you're saying would want to build support for expanding that to five regions so if there was a business that was based in bastrop within the 5% or $100,000 they would receive the benefit of the local preference over a company in New York or California. >> Correct. Right. They're trying to -- first they talked about the city of Austin, etj. Let's do it within the county, we're expanding out, so that we do get an opportunity. You know. In order to at least keep it within -- hopefully our counties, if not our state, for sure. >> Troxclair: Right. And even if a business is based in bastrop, there's a good chance that they possibly employ some people who live in Austin, so. >> Right. This keeps it in a regional approach, which I know that as the city begins to tackle its [2:43:45 PM] transportation, its affordability issues, etc., it just lends itself to really fall within the bailiwick of operating as a region rather than just individually in our own community. >> Troxclair: Members, any questions? Councilmember Houston. >> Houston: Thank you for bringing this back again. I've had several small businesses who have had to move outside of Austin because of property taxes, so they're having to move further into the counties in different counties. So thank you for looking at a regional approach. >> Troxclair: I think that's great. So is there a motion to, I guess, approve these resolutions for consideration by the legislative committee? >> Casar: Yeah, I likely would be comfortable with that. The second portion about the local preferences and the tiers, is there a separate resolution that y'all passed? I have two copies. >> Troxclair: Here is a copy of that. I don't see -- so this resolution in front of us doesn't speak to the different tiers. You were just mentioning that. >> Yes. Just letting you know that we were open to that, if that's how it came down, because the second recommendation about the local preference and what that encompasses, that can be done at the city level. That's not a legislative matter. >> Troxclair: Oh. This can be done by the city. >> Correct. That's by you all, to take it to the council. >> Troxclair: Okay. >> And have you all determine it. >> Troxclair: Okay. >> What you want local preference to look like. >> Troxclair: Let's hear from our city legal. >> Well, actually, local preference in the Texas local government code states in the municipality. And so it would take a legislative change to also broaden it to outside of the municipality, to whatever counties, etc. So right now state law specifically says in the [2:45:45 PM] municipality. >> Troxclair: Okay. Thanks for that clarification. And I believe that the tiers she's talking about is maybe a business that, if two businesses are competing, one is in Austin and one is in bastrop, that the Austin business that pays Austin taxes would maybe get a slightly bigger preference than a business that doesn't pay Austin taxes. Okay. Councilmember Casar. >> Casar: Yeah, I'm happy to move that we add these things to our legislative agenda ideas that we support as a city. And I would also like, within that motion, to make sure that the posting language is broad enough such that if there is any tweaks to this that we want to make as far as how the preferences and tiers work, we'd be okay with that. And I anticipate that those will continue to be filed on a variety of issues between now and when we get together on the 26th, so for our posting language to be broad enough that other councilmembers that want to talk about the legislative agenda can use this as an opportunity to do so. So I'd move these two and would like for our staff to leave that posting language broad enough that -- amendments to the agenda. >> Troxclair: The easier way may be to recommend that we send these on to the ad hoc committee, because I believe the legislative ad hoc committee are coming to council with the legislative agenda as a whole to approve in January. So it'll be other items. >> Casar: January the 26th y'all will be bringing that forward as an ifc resolution? >> Troxclair: I think that's right. We've been talking -- meeting about compiling our legislative agenda, but we have yet to bring it to council for approval. Considering it's not on the agenda this week, I'm assuming it will be for January 26th. >> Casar: Something easier, maybe to not forward an item to [2:47:46 PM] the council since y'all will be bringing an item to the council, and just state that our committee supports that section of -- the two of y'all will be bringing that forward. So you don't wind up tripping over yourselves. >> Pool: I think your motion to recommend that we send it forward to the legislative committee is a great one. The piece about leaving the posting language open, I don't know that we connect on that, but we definitely want to forward this officially to -- >> Casar: Forward it to the committee to bring it back to us? Can we move our committee endorses these? >> Troxclair: Sure. >> Casar: We can send it to the council agenda and if it's not on the same meeting, then we can postpone it so it's all in one discussion. >> Houston: Thank you. I think it's actually better to send it to the ad hoc committee because they're going to be looking at other things that come forward to add to the legislative agenda, and that's probably the most direct route and the appropriate route to go. But I wanted to ask staff something really quickly. >> Troxclair: Go ahead. >> Houston: Is there a way to get more clarity -- what would we need to do to get the language regarding the tiered system before this -- the legislative -- ad hoc committee? >> Well, I think that the committee itself wouldn't have to specify the tier as the only solution or option. It could be including but not limited to a system rating bidders based on their proximity to the city or something like that. I'm more than happy to help if you need me. But I think it could be written pretty broadly to make sure that it gives the fullest options to the council and the city. >> Houston: Okay. Thank you. We'll call you. [ Laughing ] >> Casar: That sounds good. I'll modify my motion to say we recommend this for the folks [2:49:46 PM] that are on the ad hoc committee to consider our recommendation as the economic opportunity folks. And I would anticipate that that means that the council will likely adopt it as part of our update to the legislative agenda. >> Troxclair: There's a motion. Is there a second? There's a second. All those in favor? All right. Passes unanimously. Thank you guys for your work on this. >> Thank you very much. We appreciate your focus and look forward to the next steps along with you and everything else we need to do. Merry holidays. >> Troxclair: Please pass on our appreciation to the committee. Okay. I think our last item on the agenda here is our briefing and possible action regarding proposed program to evaluate the impact of extended hours for outdoor music venue permits for businesses within the red river cultural district. I know we have several speakers, too. Let me log back into my computer. Do the speakers have a reference for speaking before or after the staff presentation? Anybody? Okay. We'll go ahead and take the speakers, then. Is Cody Cowan here? >> Troxclair: After him we'll have Ryan Garrett. >> Good afternoon. >> Hello. >> My name is Cody Cowan, I'm the general manager of the mohawk and the vice president of the red river cultural district merchants association. The red river cultural district is a cultural generator and live music incubator located between 6th and 12th on red river. We're a host to a variety of different cultural generators, [2:51:48 PM] whether it be first Baptist church, German Texas heritage center, we have hotels, we have community living, we have food, and last but not least we have live music venues. The red river cultural district has currently 13 live music venues. We define a live music venue as being an incubator of live music. As incubators, that means we're helping to grow local artists from one stage to the next, creating opportunities to propel them forward into festivals, into opening for larger bands. As cultural generators, we're host to genre development within the city of Austin. We -- mohawk, our saying is all are welcome. And the red river cultural district surely has taken that motto up. We host to large groups of crowds, hip-hop, Latin music, punk, metal, indie, everything that we can provide to our fans. Similarly, we are part of the -- a corridor between central health and the convention center for growing cultural tourism in Austin. So when we got hotels popping up left and right down there, those hotels, as part of our cultural district, are telling us they're opening down there because they want to get in on the fun things we have happening down there, the festivals, all the shows. So we find a lot of value in our community down there. Now, you may or may not have heard that we're under a cost crisis right now. Most of our cost models have rent as 20% or higher of gross sales, so we're running 95 to 98% cost models. We would like to implore y'all to consider putting forward a pilot program to create [2:53:48 PM] opportunities for us to extend hours, which would in turn allow for additional sales to cover rising rents and additional opportunities to pay artists both local and touring. So please consider putting this forward. We would like -- we already have a good track record in terms of current permitting with decibels and playing by the rules. We'd like to see what data that would provide in terms of covering our costs and creating more opportunities for all the folks that come down there, artists and fans. Thank y'all. >> Troxclair: Thank you. Councilmember Houston. >> Houston: Thank you so much. Before you leave, is the increase in alcohol sales what will provide you revenue to do more things and pay artists better? >> Yeah. Our primary revenue stream is from alcohol sales. That's what the majority of our costs are tied to. And then door covers, as well as models with alcohol sales allow for payment of artists who come down there. >> Houston: So I have been to -- haven't been to the red river cultural district in a while. What is the door charge fee range? >> Between 5 and $10. Anywhere between 3 and 6 bands. A pretty good deal. >> Houston: That's not bad. Thank you. I may come down and see you on Friday night. >> We'd love to have you. >> Troxclair: How many nights of the week are you charging a cover? >> At the mohawk we have programming seven days a week, so we're generally -- having a cover charge seven days a week. >> Troxclair: Okay. I'm assuming that other venues that have live music don't have cover charges. And so I'm guessing that their revenue models are even more tied to the alcohol sales than, possibly the mohawk is. >> Correct. The majority of us have cover charges. >> Troxclair: Okay. [2:55:48 PM] >> But others don't, but currently all of our revenue and costs are tied to bar sales. And bar sales are frequently accelerated between the times of 10:00 P.M. And 2:00 A.M. So that's really our biggestwindow, even though we're expanding business into the day and programming earlier, that's our biggest window for meeting those costs. >> Troxclair: Do you feel like in general people are less willing to pay a cover charge, or has that not been your experience? If you're charging a cover charge seven nights a week, maybe you don't have a good comparison of what people will or won't pay to see live music. >> Well, I'll say this. I've been working on red river since 1997. I worked at a club down on 6th called imo's. When I first got there, an old Austin mainstay at the time. They had just changed from free shows to $3 covers. And there was an up-roar in the community. Oh, no this is getting out of control. But here we are 20 years later and the average door cover is $5. We might have new fans coming into the community who might not understand the value of music and paying artists, it's on us as venues to educate new fans and crowds about how important it is that we support those artists. >> Troxclair: And right now the benefit to being in -- like, is the red river cultural district -- is it more just creating a culture and a brand around red river through -- I know in our presentation we have, you know, the banners that go on the light posts and things like that -- or are there already currently benefits to being included in the group? Are there already extended hours, or already certain expedited permits, or are there any other benefits from currently being included in the red river district, or is it just an effort to create a [2:57:49 PM] culture around the brand? >> Right now the benefit of being part of the district, if you're in it, is that it's better to come together as a community than to operate outside of it. >> Troxclair: Definitely. >> We all have, through collaborating together, realized we're under the same sort of pressures. We're coming up with similar solutions. But that really, we have a lot of opportunities that we need to meet about engaging further, looking at expanding hours, looking at having conversations like we're having here today, which wouldn't have happened five years five years ago >> Troxclair: Councilmember pool >> Pool: If you have more than one band a night, the door is split among them? How do you handle the pay for the bands that you feature? >> Again, I can speak to what happens at the mohawk. So from the bar comes the cost of staffing that isn't tied to music. The only staff that's tied to music is the sound guys. So after the sound guy gets paid 100% of the door goes to the bands. >> Pool: You and said the bar? >> And the bar pays for -- >> Pool: Your staff. >> He rent, insurance -- >> Pool: Your overhead. >> Everything else. >> At least at mohawk we're giving it all to the artists. >> Pool: I have one last question. Do you have a guarantee on an amount a band will get? Or do you leave it just -- however am come through the door and pay? >> Yeah, we -- with local music, which I think we're talking about, right? >> Pool: Mm- hmm. >> Touring, there's almost always a contract in place. With local music, we like to create a performance-based model. So it's like if you have a $5 cover and you have your ten friends come in -- the growth of sound and talent, one can always look to make more [2:59:51 PM] money. And of course we have sister venues all up and down the street, where if you can play to a 200 room we can move you talking to our friends there to a 400 room and so on and so forth. Hopefully you can play the outside stages. >> Pool: Thanks. >> Of course. >> Troxclair: Very helpful. Thank you. >> Thank you all so much for your time. >> Troxclair: Our next speaker speaker -- well, I guess for this issue, I think it would be helpful to have the staff presentation before we -- because I feel like we might have more [indiscernible] For some of the other speakers once we have a better grasp on what the request is. Is there objection to hearing from the staff now? Okay, thanks. >> Pool: Thank you. >> Thank you. My presentation is very brief, I'm Alex Lopez, the director of the economic development department. I appreciate the opportunity to share this initiative with you guys today. Quick background on our department, I'll mention is to serve as a prosperity engine. By developing leading innovative programs that increase the prosperity of austinites, our businesses and diverse communities. We focus on building programs to create a better future, helping businesses reach their file potential, and enhancing the livability and vitality of our local communities and our neighborhoods. Our department is organized into five divisions and for this administrator initiate we actually had two of our -- particular initiative we had two working together, music and entertainment and redevelopment are both working on the program. As far as the specific program, to give you a little background, our code currently allows venues within the warehouse district and sixth street to have amplified sound until two am. You have a map that shows the districts in relation to red river. As part of our engagement with [3:01:52 PM] the merchants association for the red river cultural district and both through our commercial stabilization program that we reference as souly Austin and through development of the staff response to the music and creative omnibus resolution we've heard repeatedly how businesses along red river would be able to make more money if we allowed them to play later into the night. Just like venues on sixth street can do right now. We also had some speakers at our music commission for a couple of months now, providing a little more detail about the potential revenue increases that you kind of just heard about right now as well. By one estimation, playing music for just one hour later would allow them to make as much as 10% more revenue. In this slide, the music -- this led the music commission to pass a resolution on November 7, and I believe you have a copy of that as well, asking city council to consider an extended hours program for these venues. But the issue at hand is balancing the interest of these business owners with the complaints that we can still be receiving from residents. In fact, over the past year, we've seen an increase in sound complaints, 600 feet away from a radius of red river we've increased from 12 to 24. But when you go further out to 1500 feet, it's actually increased from 43 to 159 and these are 2015 versus 2016. So it's a full year for each of those two numbers -- or those four numbers. We know that part of the cause for these increases are the new developments around red river and also the launch of a new app that we have that really makes it a lot easier for residents to submit complaints. Nonetheless, we do see these numbers going up already. So our program that we're proposing is really about capturing more data about the impact. As much as possible, we'd like to be able to quantify the [3:03:54 PM] monetary impacted extended hours for venues in the district which would truly -- they do serve as initiates for -- incubators -- when these venues continue to play music closer to the times sixth street venues are currently playing, we project this could be mitigated by staggering cutoff times but we'd like to gather the data to test this assumption. Last but certainly not least we need to see what kind of impact it has to sound complaints. We recommend the proposed program be in place for one year because we've received anecdotal evidence that weather and temperature changes affect both sound levels and the revenue that businesses are able to make. However, we realize that we may not need the file 12 months to know if something is not working and we need to terminate it or if we're ready to make a permanent recommendation. As far as next steps, we want to finalize the collection -- the data -- methodology for collecting our data and set our benchmark metrics. We need to coordinate with our venues and more of our stakeholders and then we'd like to ask city council consideration for this during the January meeting. The actual -- just very quickly, the actual ordinance, whenever it is considered by city council, it may not take effect immediately because venues book their shows so far in advance we would probably need to give them a little more time to prepare, if we were to offer them these extended hours. But the important thing we would recommend is we still measure a file 12 months. Thank you very much for your time. >> Troxclair: Thank you. Councilmember pool. >> Pool: Thank you, Ms. Lopez, for the briefing. Can you describe what the range of stakeholders that you've talked to so far on this? >> We've engaged both the merchants on red river, the venues, and some of the residents that have already heard about the potential for something like this. I think through the music [3:05:55 PM] commission and through some articles that have already been out. So we do know there is concerns. Our intent is to make sure that it's clear when these extra hours would be allowed, under what parameters, what days, what times. And then to track on our end, to make sure if we're seeing any kind of an increase based on those extra hours. >> Pool: Do you know if the people whose homes are on the east side of I-35 were contacted? Or if they had registered any complaints at all? >> I don't know if -- specifically which areas have been -- have expressed that kind of concern. >> Pool: But you have the data for where the complaints -- the 1500 and then the 24? >> Yes. >> Pool: Maybe you could do a map - - >> Of where they're at? >> Pool: Yes, I think that would be helpful. >> Okay. >> Pool: Thank you. >> Troxclair: So the -- so of the complaints that you have right now, do you track or does 311 track which are from music and which are from construction development, people on the street, et cetera? >> I'm not sure, but I do think it is specifically for music, right. >> Troxclair: It is specifically for music, okay. And what are the current hours for music? >> In this area, it's still 12:00. >> Troxclair: Still 12:00. >> Every night of the week? >> Thursday, Friday, Saturday. >> Troxclair: What about the rest? >> 10:00. 10:30, sorry. Sunday through Wednesday 10:30, Thursday, 11:00, Friday and Saturday midnight. >> Troxclair: And what -- so are you considering -- I heard you say that there's 10% more -- or that it's been suggested -- what was the source of that stat, that there's up to 10 percent additional revenue for every additional hour? >> Some of the venues that testified during the music commission meeting. [3:07:55 PM] >> Troxclair: Okay. And would this pilot program -- are you proposing to extend these hours by one hour? Or is that something you're still trying to figure out? >> We would probably want to figure it out and, again, keep it staggered with sixth street as much as possible, extend where we can and also measure whether there's certain days of the week that create more of an impact. Right now we already know on Thursdays it's only until 11:00 instead of midnight so we don't know if we want to continue something where Thursday is still earlier or whether it does go all the way to regular hours. We want to test a few different models. >> Troxclair: Ob. What are the hours for sixth street right now. >> Until 2:00 unless they have a specific sound impact plan that lowers that. >> Troxclair: Every night? >> Not every night. It's on the weekends, right? Every night? Yes. >> Troxclair: Seven days a week, okay. Councilmember Houston. >> Houston: Thank you, chair. How can people tell whether it's coming from sixth street or the red river district? >> That's part of our challenge. I think if you see the map, they're such close proximity. That's been one of our big challenges and I think that's one of the issues that raised this concern as well, the fact that they are so close yet these venues are still allowed to operate the other hours versus not those at that intersection. >> Houston: So my other question is, is this about indoor music or outdoor music? >> These are outdoor venues. >> Houston: Outdoor venues, okay. Have you talked to the hospitals -- hotel indigo, I think it's open already and holiday inn. Have they done any sound abate "Because if they want more things for their visitors to go to in the area that they can just walk down the street and walk home but we're gonna get the complaints from them too. >> Right. >> Houston: So have they done any abatement to soundproof [3:09:57 PM] any of their rooms or -- >> I think they already -- to a certain degree, they knew very, very well the area they were moving into and mitigated as well as they could or were able to. I think right now they still see the benefit of the additional entertainment value and that opportunity that these venues are creating. We still do want to engage everybody, though, both the holds, and there is residencies, the Beverly is also right there, we want to make sure they understand what we're proposing here. >> Houston: And I think that -- this is my last question. I think the closest apartments or about sounds that they hear from sixth street. >> Right. >> Houston: Now. But they're further north though. >> I think it's challenging to identify exactly what the source is, especially when you have so many venues concentrated in that one particular area. But I think mapping where the incidences were reported from might help as well. >> Houston: Okay. Appreciate that. >> Troxclair: Does the warehouse district have the same hours as sixth street? Are they able to play outdoor music until 2:00 A.M.? >> Yes. >> Troxclair: Okay. And the hours that the red river cultural district has, is that the same for the entire city or is that special hours? Like what about an [indiscernible] On the east [3:11:57 PM] side? >> No. I think they're the same. They're the same as anybody else. The only two that are different are warehouse and sixth street. >> Troxclair: Why wasn't red river Clyde when -- I guess there was an exception at some point made for sixth street. Do you know when that was made and why red river wasn't included? >> I don't know I'll check with don to see if he knows? Does that predate you as well? >> Troxclair: So was it just -- don, come up here. >> I know. He's being shy. >> Troxclair: Don, do you know if at that time red river -- I mean, I know there's plenty of venues that have been around on red river for a long time too. Do you know the reason why red river wasn't included? It wasn't quite as developed as some of sixth street and the warehouse district? >> It wasn't quite as developed. That sound ordinance that identified those two locations was kind of part of a settlement between all the venues on sixth street and the warehouse district, kind of -- they filed a lawsuit against the city. >> Troxclair: The venues filed a lawsuit against the city saying what? >> That the sound ordinance was unfair. This was, like, 15 years ago. >> Troxclair: Okay. And they won? >> I think so. >> Troxclair: Or the city decided to change before that -- >> I think -- >> Troxclair: Either way they won. >> I think they found an agreement. But red river wasn't really established as kind of a cultural district at that time. So. >> Troxclair: I wonder if the venue owners and I know that that is not anybody's preferred method but I wonder if the venue owners on red river are seeing, yeah, maybe legally it's unfair, maybe the sound ordinance is legally affecting them as well too. Councilmember Casar. >> Casar: No. I appreciate the explanation. The only question that I had -- because it seems to me that if there was anywhere in the city where we want want to allow folks to have outdoor music until 2:00, it seems [3:13:59 PM] counterintuitive that the ranch would get it until 2:00 but the mohawk wouldn't. Not to express my musical preferences too hard out here. So I -- I don't know if we just -- what you all are looking for. >> Troxclair: We have two more speakers as well. Before we go, I did have one more question. I want to better understand the process. So are you hoping to come to council to decide, okay, we're gonna start a pilot program with these hours in this area and have a more defined program and you'll come to council in January with that? Or is it possible -- it might be too late for us to include it on this week's council agenda, but if it's just a matter of you want the authority to go out and engage with the community and come up with reasonable boundaries for a pilot program, I mean, my preference would be that we go ahead and give you the authority to do that so that you're not waiting until January to then go talk to the community. >> We'd like to go ahead and start developing those parameters so that when we come in January it's already gonna be spelled out. This is what we're gonna be proposing and they're being very clear about what we're asking you to approve. >> Troxclair: Okay. You feel like you can do that -- you're free to go out and start that process without council approval and when you come back you'll have more specific parameters? >> Yeah. >> Troxclair: Okay, great. Councilmember Houston. >> Houston: One last question. I appreciate the community engagement and making sure that everybody understands this is a pilot. But is this the best time to do it? Because does every club stay open during Christmas holidays? Do we have fewer or more visitors who are down in the red river district during that time? Or is it not that many people? I don't know. We need to not do the pilot or [3:16:01 PM] try to think about parameters when it's quiet and we're not gonna get as many people complaining but picking some times when there are a lot of activities going on. >> And that's why our recommendation would be that it be for an entire 12 months, so that we can measure when we see more issues or when we're seeing more of an impact on the revenue side. >> Troxclair: Okay, thanks. We'll go ahead and hear from the two other speakers, Ryan Garrett, are you here? >> Good afternoon, councilmembers, my name is Ryan Garrett, I'm the GM at stubs barbecue and I have worked on red river for the past 16 years. The past eight as GM. And in that time, I don't know that I've ever seen a proposal like the sound extension program that could have as much positive impact both economically in the creation of jobs and bringing in more diversity in talent and drawing more patrons to the red river cultural district like I do with this program. In seeing that this program had legs and being able to bring it before you today, I met with our talent buyer c3 presents that exclusively books stubs and had a lengthy conversation for forecasting and budget for what talent we could bring if the sound extension indeed comes to fruition. Based on extensive dialogue what we discovered was we would expect to bring into at least 15 more national touring acts to the red river cultural district. Stubs holds about 2100 plus vips. You bring in 15 extra shows you're looking in the ballpark of something like 35,000 more [3:18:02 PM] patrons coming to the red river cultural district. At an average ticket price of $28 to $35 you're looking at over a million dollars in ticket revenue just been extending this program. You couple that with food and beverage and merchandise sales and what you're looking at from a stubs perspective is millions of dollars in additional revenue to preserve a local businesses that been doing -- bringing cultural to the heart of Austin for the past 20 years. Not to mention that when you do bring in 35 additional people, these are people that will be traversing past other of our neighboring businesses on red river. Frequenting the mohawk and cheer up Charlie's empire, alesium. That is a significant increase in foot traffic and shines a light on what we consider to be the epicenter of live music in Austin, Texas. We love bringing in diverse acts, love seeing diversity of demographics coming in, enjoying show, going to hoe hawk, swinging across the street and catching an after show at stubs, seeing shows at waller creek amphitheater. That is what we do, what we're about, what I've dedicated the last 16 years to progressing and I'm very proud of that. But we're at a crossroads. We could use some help, and I feel as though this council, by formally submitting to council in general this proposition would go a long way to preserving what makes Austin Austin in the heart of downtown. I also want to reference briefly dish saw some of those metrics up in regards to -- I saw some of those metrics up in regards to -- [ buzzer sounding ] Is that my time. >> Troxclair: It will, go ahead and finish your thought. >> I saw the metrics in regards to sound ordinance issues. Like my friend at the mohawk we've been good players for a [3:20:03 PM] long time. We have not been issued a citation since I've been GM for the past eight years and back in August of 2014, at the chambers across the way here, I met with concerned residents to our neighborhood up north, the Hancock area, Hyde park neighborhood, and at that time I provided them my email address, my direct office line, and my cell phone number, and advised kindly if indeed they have a sound issue in their neighborhood -- these are community leaders in that district -- to contact me directly and allow me an opportunity to correct the problem without going to the city. And since October of 2014 -- or, excuse me, August of 2014, I've received one sound complaint. One cell phone call. No emails. No phone calls to my office line. And I got one phone call to my cell phone, second weekend of acl fest 2014. Since that time we've been quiet. I've hosted at least 225 outdoor events since August 2014, amplified concerts, private events, shows. We want to be good neighbors and I'm not bringing that up to be divisive. I want to work with the community, I want to work with these neighborhoods but we also need help in raising revenue down in this cultural district. Thank you. >> Troxclair: Thank you. Councilmember Houston. >> Houston: What do y'all do to mitigate the sound because you do have a lot of outdoor concerts? >> Yes, ma'am, a few years ago working with don pits we took part in the sound mitigation program. We took a loan from the city to improve our pa system, fly our fronts up on a trust, angle them down into the crowd, and be more directional in regards to how sound is conveyed in our amphitheater. We found incredible improvement in the manner in which sound is contained within theway waller creek theater at stubs barbecue. [3:22:05 PM] I will advise briefly in discussions with don and his office that there have been times where sound complaints have been issued where indeed stubs has been dark. We had no shows going on and it is my understanding that complaints have been filed with the city where it says stubs is keeping me up at night. Pun investigation, what is realized by city officials is that stubs is dark. There is no concert. But, again, it goes back to being a compliant player, working with the city, building a new pa system that's more directional and doesn't interfere with surrounding community. We take a lot of prime in that. >> Houston: Thank you -- pride in that. >> Houston: Thank you. >> Casar: Thanks for coming by today and I of course appreciate getting more national acts on y'all's big outdoor stage helps with your financial health and that that's important for everybody that works for you and all of that work. But I do know and would note that some of your scrappier musician types play indoors and the smaller stage at stubs later in the night, same thing at mohawk so as we go I hope the council will adopt some sort of pilot program during all this. During that time if you can continue to work with advocates of our local musicians about how booking the bigger stage for longer can help them too. I think that's an important part of the puzzle. We wouldn't want folks to think -- because the sound restrictions could get cannibalized because we're working on the bigger stuff too. So if we can make sure it's an all of the above we're bringing in national outdoor acts but because you have the bigger stage it helps the local folks, I think that's important. >> Total agreement with that. >> Casar: Let's keep working on that as we roll out to what the permanent process may look like once we're done piloting. >> You have my word. >> Casar: Thank you. >> Troxclair: Can you talk to us about your margins and about the financial health of [3:24:06 PM] stubs and how maybe, I don't know, I'm sure your property taxes have gone up and how expenses have kind of impacted your balance sheet? >> Yes. Property tax is obviously on the grow, we're totally aware of that. We're in the office negotiating that on an annual basis. We're aware the ground on which we're built is highly sought after ground. It's in the heart of Austin. We developed it. We've made it unique, and we're aware of the, you know, appraisal value increasing. You know, in regards to cost of sale, when it comes to booking national talent, there's very little money left over after settlement. You have production to pay for. You have are the ectoderm writers to pay for, you have a pa system to pay for. We locally source our pa system to big house sound, we have an Austin company we utilize as well. When all things are said and done and you finish a settlement sheet with an artist, you're looking at a cost of goods sold of about 88%. It's not a lot of revenue left over at the end of the day when you have taxes and other, you know, expenses to pay. Where we do make up revenue is barbecue sales and alcohol sales, non-alcohol sales, beverage sales. Those typically run somewhere in the 22% range, food about 33%, but it's extensive to do business. You open a restaurant in Austin, Texas, you better have an aggressive business plan. Luckily for stubs for 20 years we progressed so very proud of what we've done there. >> Troxclair: And of course not all of the other local music venues have the diversity of sales in the food that stubs has. >> That is correct. I think one of the things I'm most proud of if this does pass and we're able to bring in 15 more outdoor shows what it does to the neighborhood in general is it improves the scope of business. That's 35,000 people passing other storefronts and we want to see red river remain local. We want to see it remain authentic Austin. [3:26:06 PM] People that come in from out of town are blown away by the scope of what we do in the cultural district, and it's expensive to keep it and running. We could use some help. >> Troxclair: Thanks so much for being here. >> Thank you. Appreciate your time. >> Troxclair: Or last speaker is Steven starren shine. I appreciate you spelling that out for me. [ Laughter ] >> Good afternoon, my name is Steve [indiscernible], president of the red river merchants association and also the owner of empire garage. I obviously agree with the things that have been said so far by my friends from mohawk and stubs. I want to also thank the music department and economic development department for pushing this forward because it really is -- it could be the biggest thing that we could do for music in Austin in a long time. It's the most exciting thing we've seen. I want to speak really quickly just a little bit more about what impact in terms of local music we're gonna see from this program. And, you know, essentially adding -- let's say we added an hour Thursday, Friday, Saturday to, you know -- the hours that we're able to have live music. That would allow each of the venues that can take advantage of that program to book at least one more band, one more local band per night. So there's probably seven or eight -- I think seven venues in the cultural district that would be able to book an additional band. So that's 21 bands a week times 52. We're talking about a really significant number of additional opportunities for local musicians, and when you look at what stubs and [3:28:08 PM] roadshows and touring shows look like, the opportunity to put another local opener in front of those bands, you know, if you only have from, say, 8:00 until midnight, that means you can only have three bands perform. If you have an extra hour or so or two, until 2:00, then you can put another opener in front of those bands, and that's a really big opportunity for those guys to get in front of a bigger audience than they'd normally have. So in terms of the opportunity, you know, for artists, for the folks -- the professionals who run the stages earning more money per hour because they're open for longer, this proposal could really potentially help to stabilize, you know, and relieve a lot of the pressure that we're experiencing in the district. I suppose I'm -- you know, another thing that might be worth, you know, just kind of highlighting for you is, you know, the situation -- empire control specifically run the north side of seventh street so that means that we're not able to go until 2:00 A.M. On the other side of the street, south side, which is still part of the red river cultural district, bear cued da, swan diversion those folks are all able to go until 2:00 A.M. And there's kind of an arbitrary line that's drawn in the middle of the street. [ Buzzer sounding ] That has been, you know, kind of I think to your point earlier, councilmember, handicapping us a little bit in terms of our ability to compete. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. Thank you for the time. >> Troxclair: Do you feel like the venue owners in the sixth street and warehouse district would oppose this? Do you think that they would see you as competition? Or do you feel like there's plenty of eager musicians that [3:30:10 PM] are willing to play in all three different locations until later in the evening? >> That's a great question. I don't think they would oppose this. I mean, I certainly feel like, you know, when we close our doors at midnight people don't necessarily just go home. They might end up at another bar or establishment that's open until 2:00 A.M. But I also think, to councilmember Casar's point earlier, the type of events and music that we do in the cultural district is very different so it draws a different audience, and I think, you know, certainly part of the overall things that we're hoping to do as a merchant association for the district will broaden the appeal of the district to, you know, the -- to the Austin community. But I don't think that there's really a conflict between the sixth and warehouse districts and the red river cultural district. I think, yeah, you know, there's plenty of -- plenty of folks looking for things to do to go around. >> Troxclair: Thanks. Any other questions? >> Thank you. >> Troxclair: All right, thanks. Ms. Lopez, do you mind coming back for a couple more questions? Councilmember pool. >> Pool: I just had two more questions. Right now with the shutoff timing ass in place, what is the compliance on both sixth street and on red river? >> I don't know -- I personal don't -- personally don't have that information. >> Pool: Hello, Mr. Pits. >> Hello. Are you speaking compliance as far as cutoff times or -- >> Pool: Right. >> Yes. Generally, A.P.D. Pretty much informs that we're getting hundred percent compliance on red river. Sixth street is compliance with cutoff but not compliance with decibel levels. >> Pool: Okay. And then my second question [3:32:11 PM] goes to the police and the patrolling and if we are to expand the hours, make them later along red river, do we know what impact that may have on our first responders? As far as deployment and patrolling? >> The communications and conversations I've had with A.P.D., they were supportive of a staggered, like, a, you know, 1:00 or 1:30. They said they would like to try 2:00 a couple weeks just to see if it was an impact. We've been doing the staggered cutoff times for the last five years for -- during south by southwest, temporary events versus venues, and it seemed to have worked pretty well. >> I would image we've got a lot of good information and data from how we've managed south by. Okay. Thank you. >> Troxclair: During south by are these venues allowed to play longer? >> Yes, ma'am. During south by, the ten days, they're allowed to go to 2:00 A.M. >> Troxclair: Okay. You mentioned decibel levels. What is the decibel level requirements? What are they? >> It's 85. >> Troxclair: Any time? Regardless of what district? >> Correct in the red river cultural district -- >> Red river is 85. >> Pool: Is that they boundary line, on the street? Is it at the entrance to the venue? Where is it measured. >> Along the property line. >> Pool: Thanks. >> Troxclair: I just want to confirm one more time, are you looking for action from this committee today or was this just a briefing, a heads-up that you're starting to engage the community and putting together a potential pilot program that you're going to be coming to council for approval for in January. >> It was really more of an update and briefing because we know the music commission had [3:34:11 PM] passed the resolution. We do intend to come back. We listed it with all sorts of options on the agenda in case you wanted to take action but it was really just a briefing. >> Troxclair: Okay. I am really excited about it and I do think that there's a lot of potential -- we've talked a lot about what we can do to support the live music community, and to me on its face this seems like one potential option that can really be beneficial to both of those groups without -- you know, without creating a new city program or costing a lot more in taxpayer dollars. So I love being able -- I don't often stay up until 2:00 A.M. These days but I do love going to the earlier shows in the area whenever I get a chance. Thank you for your efforts on this, and thanks to all of the venue owners and everybody else here who are participating and being good actors so far and giving us a reason to want to work in good faith and you support you. Absolutely. All right. That is the last item on our agenda. Is there anything -- any other comments or questions? >> Casar: Chair, if we're not voting on this, then I'd -- for what it's worth I'd second your sentiments there and look forward to that coming to council because if we have it until 2:00 A.M. On and I the warehouse district, it just doesn't seem to me to be very strong reasons for it to not apply to red river as well. Thanks forgetting us briefed on that. >> Troxclair: All right. We will adjourn and see each other back here on -- in March. [Meeting adjourned ]