Audit and Finance Committee Meeting Transcript – 05/23/2018 Title: ATXN 24/7 Recording Channel: 6 - ATXN Recorded On: 5/23/2018 6:00:00 AM Original Air Date: 5/23/2018 Transcript Generated by SnapStream ================================== [9:33:48 AM] >> Tovo: Good morning, welcome. I am Kathie tovo. I chair this committee and serve as mayor pro tem. We have a quorum so we're going to go ahead and get started, and we will start with the minutes. I will entertain a motion from councilmember pool to move approval. Is there a second? Councilmember alter seconds that. Any discussion? All right. All those in favor? Then that passes unanimously. Do we have any citizens communications today? I'm sorry, I haven't signed on yet. Has anybody signed up for citizens communication? Great. How about we will take you first. If you would come up and you will have three minutes. And if you would just start by introducing yourself, please. >> Where do I stand, right here? >> >> Tovo: You can use the hand mic or you can sit at the table, wherever you're more comfortable. And just as a reminder, citizens communications are for items that are not on the agenda. So if you're actually here to speak about one of our agenda items we'll take you up at that time. >> Okay. My name is Melissa little, I'm a adopter and foster at Austin animal center. I'm here to ask for a review of the animal services volunteer agreement. Please ask the city manager to amend it to stipulate that respectful advocacy on behalf of animals is not prohibited or punishable by suspension or removal of a volunteer. On the evening of may 16th, five volunteers received email notification that they were suspended from volunteer services at Austin animal center allegedly for violating on workplace culture agreement. These volunteers are at the shelter for hours everyday, walking dogs, helping facilitate play groups, offering kennel enrichment and spending time getting to know the pups. Without these critical volunteers, dogs will sit in their kennels for days as staff rarely take dogs out [9:35:49 AM] for breaks. In fact, Monday, may 21st, 63 dogs were not taken out of their kennels. In order for you to understand why these suspensions are so wrong, I have to tell you about Bettie and Wilma. Bettie and Wilma are the most bonded pair of dogs any of the volunteers at the shelter have ever met. To be a bonded pair means that the dogs will not thrive if separated. On may 6, a much dreaded free adoption day at the Austin animal center was done. Wilma was adopted to an individual without her bonded pair Bettie. After Wilma's adoption, the same man who adopted her was allowed to adopt a second dog, although by then it was known he had received a citation for leaving a dog in a hot car. This adoption was in direct violation of Austin animal center's own adoption policies. Needless to say Wilma's adoption concerned volunteers deeply and they took to an internal staff social media group to voice their concern. Animal services management censored volunteers from commenting about Bettie and Wilma being separated and deleted many threads regarding the concerns of the animals' safety and well-being. Wilma's adoption had a devastating effect on the shelter as five dedicated and essential volunteers were suspended for voicing their concerns on this internal non-public forum. These volunteers are respected members of our community. They're business owners, parents, retired professionals who selflessly give their time to ensure the safety and well-being of these animals. Austinites love their dogs and this is a horrible blow to the morale of this community. What does the no kill movement mean if we do not put the livelihood of the animals first and foremost before the pressures of meeting adoption lives save quotas. I thank you for your time. [9:37:50 AM] >> Tovo: Thank you. I'm going to call on director Hensley I know that we all received email about this situation and we did receive a staff memo that I hope has been shared with members of the community who were interested in this subject. But director Hensley, if you would just address the subject. >> Sarah Hensley, interim city manager. If I could get a copy of your memo. I'm meeting with the leadership team and we are -- I'm looking into this. However, there are other circumstances surrounding this issue that we shared with the mayor and council, and I'm happy that we can send that out to those individuals. The staff at the animal services center care very deeply about those animals and in case of Bettie and Wilma I have started to dig into that. I can't remember which one of the dogs, but one of them had a very severe break and is in -- has to stay at the kennel for another month until the end of June. And the staff were making a decision based on whether they should keep the dogs together in a kennel while one of them could actually be adopted and not be locked up in a kennel for the entire time. And that was the decision that was made. We are going to review that as well as some other things and go back and look at policies and procedures. I have a meeting set up with the leadership team as it is. We care deeply about our volunteers, but we also ask that when we have hang opportunity to share information that it be handled in a way where it is not degrading or disparaging towards other people and that we're not sharing information out in the public about an individual that may have been adopting an animal. If indeed someone has adopted an animal ha has been cited or noted for leaving an animal in a car or cruelty, obviously that needs to come to our attention and the staff are very concerned. That's why we're going to review things, we're going to go back through. And as I understand T the staff will be meeting one on one with these volunteers [9:39:50 AM] that were suspended to talk about what occurred and then how we can prevent that from happening in the future. But we do appreciate your comments and I'm going to follow up with what exactly you said with the staff. I have a meeting set up. Thank you. >> Tovo: Thank you. Katie Blackwell. And you will be followed by Tom Rutt. And then our last speaker on citizens communication, so I have suggested is Paul Robbins -- registered is Paul Robbins. >> Good morning. My name is Katie Blackwell and I am a volunteer and a doctor from the Austin animal center. I am here today to ask the audit and finance committee for review of animal services' policies, procedures and performance measures to ensure shelter pets are not going to homes with a history of animal cruelty. Animal services has focused on one performance measure, live outcomes, quality of life measures do not seem to matter as long as the live outcome rate is as high as possible. I am here to voice my concerns about how easy it was for someone with a documented history of animal cruelty to adopt an animal from the animal center. Recently a man was allowed to adopt Wilma. It was then found that he had been arrested and charged with leaving a dog in a hot car in October of 2017. A phone call to the round Rock municipal court showed this charge and provided details. To make matters worse, after the history was brought to the Austin animal service's attention they allowed this person to adopt a second dog less than a week after adopting Wilma. Aac's failure to allow someone to adopt with a history of cruelty and their facilitation of not only one, but two adoptions to this person is a poor reflection of what a compassionate animal shelter's priority should be. Please review animal services' performance measures and to ensure that animals' well-being is not put at risk due to a faulty performance measure system that only values live outcome rates. Thank you. [9:41:51 AM] >> Pool: Thank you so much. Mr. Robbins. All right. So you're Tom Rutt, is that correct? You have three minutes. Thank you for being here. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Can everybody hear me? Excellent. Thank you. My name is Tom. I'm actually a volunteer with Austin animal center as well. I've been a volunteer for the last two years and walked the medium and large dog population. I volunteer approximately 20 hours per week give or take Sunday through Friday and walk in the range of about 100 to 150 dogs per week. I'm trying to conquer what is called the end count. So dogs that are not walked on a daily basis at Austin animal center. It is something that we track at least as it relates to within the volunteer community and it is something as you can imagine for someone like myself, walking 100, 150 dogs per week, I do care about as to whether dogs get out. The end count, and I do have a graph in the upper left-hand side, the end count is really the count of dogs that did not get out of their kennel for a given 24 period. That means that dog did not get a positive human experience, did not get a kennel break in terms of bathroom break and certainly didn't get exercise. We have a history of end counts and certainly it goes back to 2015 and before when some volunteers have attempted to help and make change within the environment. You can see at the bottom there was a city council for two full-time employees for the Austin animal center to be able to help walk dogs to alleviate some of the end count mobs problems. You can see that at that time the identification was anywhere between 30 and 100 dogs were not getting out of their kennels. Again, this is a situation, an end count is a dog that did not get exercised, did not get human interaction [9:43:52 AM] and did not get a kennel break in terms of bathroom break. If you look at the stats that accumulate in the top left, that same problem is happening exactly today. If you look at the last six months, the average is 40 to 45 dogs not getting out of their kennels. That means 40 to 45 dogs not getting out of their kennels. They are truly isolated in their kennels. If you look at the lack of walks or kennel breaks that does add increased stress to dogs in the kennel environment. The shelter is a stressful environment for dogs to start with. If you leave them isolated in their pens or their kennels without dog walks, exercise, discipline, love, they obviously get tremendously more stressed. That does lead to longer stays and that certainly happens at the shelter as well as overcrowding, including using pop-up kennels in multipurpose or conference rooms to make space. That also leads to clearinghouse events which the two prior speakers talked about an event of an adoption that took place at a zero cost weekend. Unfortunately overcrowding does create the impetus for what I would consider clearinghouse events, zero cost adoptions that do have recidivism as it relates to returns of dogs. That does lead to volunteer criticism and terminations which leads unfortunately as more volunteers get suspended or terminated that would walk, leaves more dogs that can't be walked at that point. It is a vicious cycle that's been happening for three years. You can see the city council resolution in may of 2015 that in my opinion certainly I believe for this finance and audit committee should take a look at as it relates to whether we as a city have lived up to that responsibility both in terms of from a real standpoint and an aspect of no kill trying to get every dog out. I ask two things. Number one, revisit the city council resolution to have two full-time dog walkers walking dogs to eliminate the N count and the second is to look at metrics to have the N count in addition to live outcomes as a metric that's identified for Austin animal center. It is an important thing to gets dogs out of the kennel environment. >> Tovo: Thank you very [9:45:52 AM] much. And our last citizen communicating to us today via this part of the schedule is Mr. Robbins. >> Good morning. I am Paul Robbins. I'm an environmental activist and consumer advocate. A few months ago council requested a benchmark study of water and solid waste rates. While I think the concept is a great idea, I'm concerned about possible lack of objectivity. My understanding is that the studies will be conducted by the affected departments rather than a consultant or auditor outside of the department that has a direct interest in the outcome. I am personally interested in the outcome of the water study because a previous work that I did in 2012, I conducted a unique study comparing the average cost of water production in Austin as opposed to the average cost for an average consumer since Austin has steeply tiered rates, an average consumer would have a much lower bill than what the water production really was. And this study showed that Austin had the highest combined water and wastewater cost of the top Texas cities, and it was the highest in all rate classes. It also was -- Austin was also higher than most of its suburbs. This study is actually online if you want to glance at it. It's called hard to swallow. [9:47:57 AM] The report also detailed why costs were so high. And going back to the benchmark studies that Austin has suggested, that the council has suggested, I think that this kind of thing is the direction that needs to happen. You all need to hear both the good and the bad news, and that's more likely to be brought out with an objective study. I am bringing this to the attention of the audit committee because it is the obvious place that the utility audits would be discussed. I would encourage this committee or the general counsel to amend the benchmark study to be more objective. Thank you. >> Tovo: Thank you very much, Mr. Robbins. All right. That brings us to our first audit. Let's see, we have four audits to talk about, two audits and two updates. But we're going to start with the homelessness audit, please. I believe we do have some speakers on this, but I think we will hear the staff presentation. No, we have no speakers signed up on this. >> Andrea Keegan was the auditor on this. This is the third in a series of audits related to homelessness in Austin and Rachel will be presenting this morning. >> Good morning, committee members. This is the third audit in our series of audits on homelessness assistance. The objective of this audit was to determine if city resources spent on these resources were allocated effectively. Although the United States passed federal legislation to assist communities with homelessness assistance over 30 years ago, homelessness remains a difficult problem for communities to solve. [9:49:59 AM] Homelessness task force estimates that more than $30 million will be spent on homelessness in Austin in 2018 by the city. This amount is a mix of federal and state funding as well as. General fund dollars and some bond funding. The housing and urban development department funds to support homelessness services come to the city through grants and entitlement funds. Additional hud money is spent on homelessness in Austin, but does not pass through the city. The city recently endorsed the ending community homelessness coalition's action plan to end homelessness. The city works with partners to identify the homeless population and their needs. In Austin the city primarily relies on echo to collect and report information about the homeless population. Echo collects information about the homeless population in three ways. Using the homelessness management information system, which is used by service providers to track individuals using homelessness and homelessness prevention services, the point in time count conducted by volunteers on one night in January, and through the coordinated assessment which assesses an individual's need for housing and vulnerability if they remain unhoused. The coordinated assessment is also used to prioritize people for housing. This graphic demonstrates out those tools work in conjunction to identify the homeless population and how some people experiencing homelessness remain uncounted. In 2017 his indicated 7,498 people used homeless services in Austin. The point in time count identified 236 people experiencing homelessness on one night. The tools used for determining the size of the homeless population are designated by hud, but they are not comprehensive. The point in time count does not count people experiencing homelessness who are currently incarcerated or hospitalized. Without knowing the size of the population and their needs, resources cannot be properly aligned with the program goals. One tool, the coordinated assessment, is an assessment performed by trained service [9:52:00 AM] providers that gives a person experiencing homelessness a vulnerability score based on various factors. The higher the vulnerability score, the more they are prioritized for services. However, not all people experiencing homelessness who seek services are able to access the coordinated assessment. The assessment was not offered at the arch during the time of our audit and due to a limited number of people certified to perform the coordinated assessment, many service providers are unable to offer it everyday. We found that 42% of the people who use shelter in Austin in 2017 have not had a coordinated assessment. It's unclear why so many people haven't had a coordinated assessment. Access is likely an issue since it isn't offered at the arch, but his does not indicate if a person has been offered a coordinated assessment and declined to do it. Whatever the reason people who have not had the coordinated assessment, they will not be prioritized for housing according to city contracts. The variety of housing solutions for people experiencing homelessness includes rapid rehousing and permanent supportive housing. Rapid rehousing is designed to help individuals and families quickly exit homelessness and it's offered without preconditions. Similarly permanent supportive housing or psh, is low barrier, it is housing that includes wraparound support services like case management. City council has prioritized permanent supportive housing. Echo ooze needs and gaps reports notes that the city needs 700 additional units of psh. In 2014 council set a goal of creating 400 units of permanent supportive housing by 2018. As of March the city has funded 241 units. Some of those units are under construction and won't be available for at least a year. A variety of barriers prevent neighborhood housing and community development from delivering the permanent supportive housing units including the low supply of affordable housing and gathering the resources necessary to create psh. [9:54:02 AM] As a result there was not enough housing for everyone who needs it. Due to the lack of housing available for people experiencing homelessness, waitlists for housing can be long and some people aren't on the waitlist at all because they haven't had a coordinated assessment. Beyond that the coordinated assessment gathers limited information on short-term needs. Few questions in the assessment addressed immediate basic needs. Some efforts have collect information about the immediate needs of people experiencing homelessness include the homelessness advisory committee of Austin and the work done by the homelessness street team, host. These efforts are informing the arch bidding process, among other policy discussions, but they are not comprehensive. The recommendations are for the homelessness task force to work with partners to improve the collection of data about the size and needs of the homeless population. And for nhcd to develop strategies to increase the production of housing for people transitioning out of homelessness. Management agrees with these recommendations. Thank you. And we can answer any questions. >> Tovo: Thank you very much. Questions? I don't see any speakers on this item. >> Pool: Thanks for this. Can you talk to us a little bit about you mentioned that the city depends on echo for statistics and data. Can you talk to us a little bit about how that process works and if we have insufficient data, not anybody is to blame, what are we doing in order to beef up the provision -- the fact that we don't really know the size or the complexity. We know that it's large, we know that it's complex, but we don't have the detailed information on our homeless population that would lead to successful programs being focused on them. This has been a concern of mine for some time and we need to get on top of it. So can you talk to me about what we are doing, maybe not just with echo, but within [9:56:03 AM] the city itself in order to ensure that we can measure what the numbers are so that we can find people and help them? >> Sure. Echo is hud's designee in Austin for administering the continuum of care, which is how hud provides funding and services to metropolitan areas for homelessness assistance. And his, the point in time count and the coordinated assessment, are hud tools that echo administers on their behalf. And then echo reports back to hud on those populations, and those are good tools and we found that echo is following hud guidelines, but they don't speak to the entire homeless population in Austin, especially people who are hospitalized or incarcerated or people who are doubled up. As we saw in April there are a lot of different ways to define homelessness and this focuses very specifically on the hud definition of homelessness and not the homelessness definition that APD, central health, and other partners might have. And I think the homelessness task force has been working on ways. I'll let Sarah do that. >> I think you know Ann Howard, but she's here too and may want to come up here. This is something that Stephanie and I and Ann have had some detailed conversations on just recently. And to tell you that we're moving forward with the trust that we're looking at. We've received already three names for that. That's one of the things that we'll be looking at when we meet with all these different groups to talk about what else we can include, but Ann is here and can answer specifically related to the data they collect now and then we are aware incourse rated individuals and hospitals, currently we're not capturing that. And perhaps -- we do capture it. And at the arch, but there may be mechanisms that we could do a better job and that's what we want to talk about when we get everyone at the table. [9:58:04 AM] >> Mayor Adler: So talk, if you would, about both what we can do and what resources we need. >> Sure. >> Pool: I wasn't done with my question. Okay. >> Tovo: Let's back up. Can you remind us all what your question was, councilmember pool? >> Pool: I did want to dig into the data provision and there seems to be a disagreement on whether the incarcerated persons are being counted. So that would be good to get an answer to that. And then I am interested in-- my follow-on question was going to be if we are missing counting these folks and if -- put that aside. If hud is not requiring us to go into different areas in order to find people and count them, but we know they are there are and we need that number in order to boost our metrics to have a clearer, more accurate picture, what plans are afoot? And maybe this is for Ms. Hensley in order to bring our resources to bear to get clear information? This is an area that has been bothering me for quite some time so I really would like to have some clarity. Because we can't have a successful program if we can't measure it. >> No. And I think what I can say is as we -- we're going to need all the different groups to be at the table so we can look at one clear mechanism. We do va mechanism right now through the coordinated assessment. Are there areas where we can tweak it and improve, yes, so we have a better handle on capturing everything and not if we see people recurring, but I do think that-- I talked with Ann and Stephanie that one of the things we can look at, the data that echo collects, how do we add to that or beef it up so that we can better have the numbers we need? The other part of this is collectively agreeing upon what we measure. Collecting data about [10:00:06 AM] individuals that are coming through the assessment is one thing, but then having a specific agreed upon strategy and objectives is most important as well so that all the other non-profits that we're working with would only be a part of it and we're collecting consistent data across the board. As Ann alluded to, we're doing a lot of that, but just making sure 49 a city standpoint that we're engaged and we know what we're doing, but also what we're currently measuring and how it relates to what's going on with the other entities. And so it doesn't really answer it to say here is the answer. I think we're going to know more as we meet with all the other individuals that are going to be representing these groups and talking about what are you currently measuring, how are you currently measuring it, is it reaching the result that you had expected to get and then is there a way that we could collectively set better goals and objectives that would get us to a better result? >> That's really great and really important and I thank you for the cross-team departmental approach. I think it will bear some good fruit. One question to ask, which may be a phase beyond where you're at now, once we get our arms around the profile of a population, we know what resources we have and that they may take -- have benefit of, take advantage of. Do we have the kind of skill set available to us either on staff or with our community partners who have the -- I'll just say social work, community outreach type skills and training who can maybe help convince choosing to not take advantage of the resources that we may have available to them so that we can also bring on the more recalcitrant, which isn't a good word, but people who [10:02:09 AM] possibly aren't willing, do we have a plan to overcome the unwillingness and to encourage them? I know we encourage them, but in ways that are maybe more measurable and have greater results so that we can get closer to eliminating homelessness as our goal. >> I think the answer is yes, we do have and we non-profits that we work with and Ann works with that have the skills and the abilities. I think the answer here is really a multiple-pronged approach and that is that we need more housing options. We need money for a specific types of individuals whether it isn't necessarily coming through the city, but that can go to those appropriate non-profits for mental health. Mental health is a huge issue and that continuum of care for an individual who has experienced homelessness. You get them the map program, you get them into the system and then there's not enough people to follow that person that may have specific needs that think need a little more care and follow through so that they can be successful. So I would say the answer is a variety of opportunities to fund certain things that will help make it better. Would and Stephanie and I particularly won't solve the whole bigger picture, but housing options having better resources for mental health and navigation and to get people through the system to work better with the downtown community court system and taking those individuals and following and making sure that they don't come back and that we follow up with them to keep them in a safe environment, there are a lot of things and that's the idea is to continue the good work that echo has done and also build on the work that the downtown Austin alliance has done, put it together and talk to all the other non- profits. Figure out who is doing what, when, where, what, what is the desired outcome, which is a lot of it. And that's why echo and the city are working closely [10:04:09 AM] together on this so that we build on what's already there, and not go backwards. But it will take more resources. There's no doubt about it. And I think Ann, you would agree with that. >> Tovo: Can we back up and answer the question about data? I want to make sure Ms. Howard has an opportunity to answer the question that councilmember pool raised about data and the varying definitions of homelessness, I don't know if your question really touched on that. It was really do we really va means of maintaining the information for those who hud is not currently requiring a count. >> Thank you very much. And I wanted to thank my new friends at the city audit office. We've spent a lot of time together. They've done I think good work digging in to learning about the homeless management information system and trying -- like their graphic is a good attempt at trying to learn the data, the different sources. There are because of different funding streams a lot of nuances as to what number says what, but all the numbers are pretty good at measuring what they're designed to measure. For years after every point in time count where hud does not count people incarcerated, we connect with Travis county and ask how many people slept in jail the night of the count, who came in as people experiencing homelessness, and we include that number in the work we do together to map out what are we going to do next? Lots of those folks are already in the homeless information management system, sadly. That's why we're working on programs to address folks who were cycling in and out of jail. The same is true with hospitals. We have Seton nurses, for lack of a better word, who use the homeless management information system. The community health paramedics use the homeless management information system. There were 7,490 or whatever [10:06:11 AM] the number of folks we actually did complete a coordinated assessment on. We started that assessment with many more, but didn't need to finish it because we were able to divert them from the system. There are about on any given year 12,000 to 14,000 clients unduplicated in the homeless management information system who were already housed using different levels of services provided by the city and the county. This is a very robust, dynamic, fluid situation. There are almost 300 social workers who use that homeless management information system. The fact that it wasn't being provided at the arch when they were doing their research is that we're learning as fast as they go and we were hearing about and knowing -- not just hearing about it, but dealing with the crowdedness of the homeless population downtown and we've assessed so many people that are downtown. Let's take this assessment elsewhere and we created partnerships with goodwill and community care and workforce to have the assessments donation of downtown for awhile to see if we could find others who weren't coming downtown. And by golly, we did. So there's just -- the fact that some people aren't counted as homeless, but yet they might be, that's why we have a new grant to work with youth homelessness and have launched efforts around family homelessness because hud says if you're sleeping in an apartment you're not homeless, you're in a place not meant for human habitation, but we know a lot of young people are couch surfing and a lot of families are doubled up. So we won one of 10 grants of five million dollars in the country to look at youth homeless and be able to [10:08:12 AM] address folks who are couch surfing and doubled up. So this is work that Austin is doing and really helping lead the country and learning more about how do you find people. I think Benny Coleman is here. We're working with aid and project help to find the youth and the families that aren't on our radar already. So the data is sort of what it is and it's -- a lot of it is really good and rich and tells us about the people and their suffering. I think that going forward we know and your endorsement of the action plan is a testimony to -- there's not enough of anything to address the existing need so we've got to be really smart and work together about how we use what we have and how we build on that to develop the public-private partnership. Thanks for letting me talk. >> Tovo: And one thing I wanted to pickup on. You talked about couch surfing not meeting hud's definition, however it does on the department of education. So one thing that the audit highlights but I think is not necessarily always apparent to the public that we have two federal agencies that define homelessness differently. So depending on what reporting is happening you may get different numbers because those families who are doubling up and whatnot are. >> To show the feds that that's sort of silly and we need to address this. So we have another big meeting next week on homelessness where we'll be talking about how do we sort of ignore that and do what Austin needs to do and get waivers from the feds and get their money to move the ball forward. >> Tovo: And the reality, I would think, for many of those families who are doubling up, is that there are in very unstable housing so should be certainly considered among our [10:10:13 AM] individuals who are experiencing very unstable housing situations. Ms. Howard, when you talked about the arch and the lack of coordinated assessment during the period of the audit, was coordinated assessment being offered at any of the partner organizations that are in that immediate vicinity such as Trinity center a few blocks away? >> Yes, you could do it at Trinity center and we have sort of an appointment thing going on with the salvation Army downtown as well as out at their women and children's shelter. I am confident that when we do the redesign of the arch there will be the ability -- I think the next phase of all this is lots are people are trained to do coordinated assessment. We adopted a model to make sure it was high quality that it would be done by a team and we can look into the his system and look at who does the assessment where and -- they'll is pretty tight. I think there's also conditions downtown at that time at the arch that everybody was concerned about. And we're sort of doing the best we can with what we have. >> But if somebody came in downtown, if somebody downtown wanted to get coordinated assessment downtown they still had options beyond the arch. >> Absolutely. We'll take it where somebody is when we know about them to get it done. >> Tovo: Thank you. Councilmember alter. >> Alter: Thank you. This may be a question for Ms. Hensley. I was hoping that you could speak a little bit to the -- what the Blumberg team is bringing to this discussion. Obviously we don't have everyone counted, but I would like to hear about their role and getting us to a better place. >> So first of all, the I team was instrumental in helping us sort of capture some information from individuals experiencing homelessness. They were out there for [10:12:14 AM] quite a bit of time interviewing those individuals separate from an assessment, but learning more about- - really listening, what are their needs. And that's what you saw when we presented the powerpoint about the different comments that they had of just a safe place to sleep, not to feel accosted, all those things. Second is right now as a matter of fact I have a meeting scheduled with them where we go from that is after doing those assessments and having those discussions and sort of lying all that out, the next step is working with Ann and Stephanie. We want to sit down with the I team to come up with an agreed upon strategy on where we go next and how we engage the community, the trust, how we collectively work together so that whatever we're doing, first citing about measures and things, that we're setting this up and doing it together, and that they're helping us achieve that. Before they were doing a lot of the discussions with individuals experiencing homelessness, they were mapping that out. They were doing a lot of those things and they were kind of behind the scenes, but they were very instrumental in that. Now I would like to sit down with them and bring it forward to help us further the discussions, but more with also the stakeholders, but more with those groups, those non-profits who are funding services and then start to look at and map out what's happening and doing the gap analysis and where the funding may not be as significant as it needs to be. >> Thank you. >> Tovo: Mature. -- Mayor. >> Tovo: I appreciate what's happening and the audit ear work in pulling this together as well as the work that the council approved and the work that you're doing. Obviously we're working on this in so many different ways and places and the coordination is going to be real helpful. If you could speak just for a second on how from your [10:14:15 AM] view the resources available match to the challenge presented. >> Thank you, mayor, for the question, and it also goes back to something that councilmember pool asked about not -- why do some people -- the audit not do the coordinated assessment. When you see that your buddy did the assessment and nothing happened, why do the assessment? And it goes to I think frustration not only by us but by people experiencing homelessness that there's not much help available. And as soon as we see somebody get housed from a group they're all ready to do the assessment. They're they're just like us, right? So when we have projected the costs related to ending homelessness for everybody, we already know. And for folks that are likely to welcome homeless based on the data analysis and consultation with your city demography and whatnot, we've projected a need for an additional $30 million annually from the community. And looking at the city and the county and the philanthropic community. City manager Hensley's report notes that there's already about $30 million being spent on homelessness. I think we can achieve some efficiencies in that money and to get us moving on that additional 30 million. But the 30 million cost is to make sure we have not only the support services, but access to housing and some rental subsidies to get clients stabilized until they can afford the rent. So the ability to generate new funds to do that I think will be extremely important [10:16:15 AM] and I think what we're seeing is some already synergy at play between what the city and county and health care folks are looking to do with the pay for success initiative and the philanthropic community coming on board and saying let's make this happen, that as the city leaves others will follow and join and make stuff happen. So we're looking for a pretty large investment, but the way I see it it's built on success and it's bold enough to really make the impact that not only the clients need, but the city is looking for. >> Mayor Adler: So if you could, you touched on the pay for success initiative that the mayor pro tem led us through the last budget session. Could you give us an update on where that is? That's targeting the 250 or so folks that are experiencing homelessness, but are also most frequently in our emergency rooms, most immediately involved in interactions with law enforcement officers and other ems people. And I seem to recall that the cost to our community of these folks is over $200,000 a year. >> Over $220,000 per person per year. And that's millions of dollars. So we have room to spend money to house folks and help them stabilize and still avoid millions of dollars every year. And I think that's why we're seeing our health care partners come to the table and Travis county come to the table because this is just really smart to address these frequent users who are cross-systems. I had a real pleasure a couple of weeks ago of being out at the Michael and Susan Dell foundation and talking about this project, and they said we don't typically fund [10:18:16 AM] or make investments in the housing and homelessness space, but we do make investments when we see communities addressing cross-sector multiple systems. And that's what -- this is sort of cutting edge work to really galvanize our community across the aisles. It's good. >> Mayor Adler: How is it coming in getting people to follow in the city's lead? >> So it's good in that the St. David's's foundation is coming to the table and the episcopal health foundation out of Houston, talking with the Michael and Susan Dell foundation was the first attempt at like the private investor side of the equation because what we'll be doing is raising private investment to help house folks. And the city and county dollars and health care will only be used if we demonstrate that we hit the metrics and avoided costs. So we're really excited about that. >> Mayor Adler: Thank you. >> If I could add one thing. I think the report in our presentation supports everything that Ann and Sarah said about the need for long-term housing. And the amount of time people >> Tovo: So when you say short-term needs are you talking about emergency shelter and other -- and case workers and things of that type? Because I thought we were getting a handle on that kind of information. >> I think that the tools are primarily for specifically the coordinated assessment is primarily for [10:20:16 AM] housing. Some of the information that the Blumberg team has found through their interviews, the more emergency needs, whether it's shelter, or mental health services or physical health services, things that people need while they're waiting to get to housing. There's a gap there. >> Tovo: A gap in the availability of service? I would certainly agree that -- >> In the data. To say whether the city is allocating resources appropriately to do we need more mental health services or more physical health services. We don't know what the needs are in a percentagewise. We can't say whether the resources are being spent right away. >> Tovo: I'm going to ask our representatives to respond to that too because I wasn't surprised to see that. I guess I was surprised to see the comment about the data being lacking. I am certainly not surprised to hear the resources are lacking because we know the resources are lacking in that area. I think I'll ask director Hensley and then Ms. Howard if you would just respond to that gap in the data about short services. Do you concur on that point? >> Well, I do see -- I'll speak from the city perspective and then Ann can talk a little bit about from a coordinated approach because the whole reason sort of I was asked to get involved with this is we had all these different departments doing all these different things, but there was no collective discussion about who was doing what, where, when how much money was being spent. It was eye opening to see departments across the table saying oh, I didn't know you were doing that. So from that perspective we, the city, has to do a better job of collecting the data of what we're doing, who we're serving and how we're serving. And I think -- Ann mentioned that there may be some more efficiencies there long-term of how we are coordinating our services internally and should we be and what should we be doing. [10:22:17 AM] But to do that we need to collect better data and we need to know what we're doing. But then working with our partners out in the community who are doing those things we need to have the same type of discussion and figure out if there is a way, if it's acceptable, to collectively look at if we're all doing these certain things and they're all making good movement and so many good things are happening, again, are there efficiencies to doing those more collectively and saying we all agree housing has to be a priority, housing options. Not just housing, but housing options. I think that's what you're talking about is different types of housing, whatever that may be. But along with that come those other services. Whether the city is certainly providing some things like catching someone through a hosting contact at the arch and they move through the arch. Whether it's something else that's happening and they're getting help through integral care, others. But how do we do that in a way where we are all understanding who is doing what and what the numbers are and that we can keep that more fluid. I can -- then I'll be able to give you better idea and we'll be able to ask for better support. The bottom line is I don't think anyone would argue there's not enough housing options and there's not enough resources when it comes to serving individuals, whether it's through the medical, the -- just the physical medical, mental health O a continuum of someone that follows someone through until they're ready to stand on their own two feet. We're trying to get our legs around that and the amount of money that would take. You will see some coordinated budget proposals that are coming in across city departments, but that is also not negating the fact that our non-profits out there are also asking for dollars to help because they're running out of money for mental health services as well and other things. So from a city perspective that's what we mean by gaps in numbers. There are no numbers done [10:24:18 AM] collectively in a way that's consistent. >> Tovo: At the city. Ms. Howard, would you address that from the perspective of the providers? And in particular there was an assertion in the audit that the coordinated assessment doesn't identify a person's short-term needs. Are there other methods that you all are using to identify those? >> I think so the coordinated assessment asks about 50 questions about the person's life, okay? And we can track that by each question. And in our needs and gaps analysis that's posted on our website, we highlight, you know, 42% of the population is -- self-reports diagnosis with mental illness. X number lacks employment. X number has -- is getting their health care only from emergency rooms. All kinds of data that can inform policy and program about the -- based on the needs of the homeless population. Right now we're not -- I think this is maybe what they're getting at is that we're using that score on the assessment to make the referral for housing interventions. It's also being used as a referral to integral care around mental health needs. It's not being used yet -- this has just been added, but to an employment training program. We've just launched that part. So I think there's a lot of data that we know. We can always learn more. What are the short-term needs of people experiencing homelessness? We know they need food and water and a place to go to the bathroom and shelter, and some of them want more than that. We heard from the I-team [10:26:19 AM] report they really enjoy the art classes from art from the streets. And maybe that's going to give somebody the peace of mind they need. It's not going end their homeless, but there are all kinds of things we could be doing. To me it's a matter of priorities and what funding is available. So we are laser focused on housing options for people. Proof. But in the short-term and I was talking to Stephanie about this, people are people, whether -- if they're stuck sleeping outside you can -- you know what they need. So -- >> Tovo: Thank you. It sounds as if -- it sounds as if coordinated assessment does collect information about other things that could inform the short-term needs. >> Absolutely. There's a rich database there that sort of shares the profile of people experiencing homelessness and all their different types of needs. I think what's key to know is that when somebody -- we're now going to look for Jim Smith because we have a housing program slot, if you will, available for them. Through that coordinated assessment we're able to get sort of a picture of his or her situation before we go out and try to find them. We know where they are living because they told us that in the assessment, and we can sort of staff the outreach team based on what we know about that person when we're going to find them. It's data -- the country is admiring as to how we're working together, although it's not perfect. >> Tovo: Yes. >> When we talk about short-term needs here in the report we focused a lot on the work the innovation team did with the homelessness advisory committee, people who experience homelessness, and they told us very short-term needs, a place to put their stuff that is secure, grooming, something that surprised us was [10:28:20 AM] veterinary services, things like that, that of course housing and health services are these really key, important things, but people experiencing homelessness tend to experience life a few weeks at a time because of either -- they're constantly in danger. So when we talk about short-term needs, the innovation team at host gathers a lot of information about what people need tomorrow. >> Tovo: Yeah. Those are good examples. I captured grooming, vet services or a place to do grooming, vet services, storage for belongings. >> And the pop-ups now coming as a result of -- they don't even start it -- but I will say as a more cross-functional effort with the city departments we're doing pop-ups in the locations where there are homeless camps and we're taking -- I just had a discussion yesterday about the next one that's coming up. It's going to be held at palm park. We worked with the waller creek conservancy and I've asked them to make sure we have veterinary services and people there to help with some grooming needs and the possibility of a portable shower. It's those kinds of things, the little things, that are making the huge difference. Then working with Ann and other nonprofits to then fine-tune these things and look at what are our priorities together and how we fund these things together so we get the bigger bang are the steps that we have to take. But first we have to deal with ourselves internally to figure out what we were doing so we could then better be a partner. >> Tovo: When is that pop-up at palm park? >> Oh, gosh. >> Tovo: Maybe if you can find it mention it. >> It's coming up. >> Tovo: Mayor. >> Mayor Adler: Separate issue, another Blumberg program, the mayor's challenge where they're giving 1 million to $5 million for a project and at this point staff and people have put together a proposal and we've made it to the finals list, giving I think $100,000 to develop the concept of being able to use block chain. Would you describe that real fast? >> I know just a little bit about it, but the concept is [10:30:22 AM] for -- you know, for all of us, but especially for people experiencing homelessness to be able to have access to their own records and data, if you will, their ids, health records, their last lease in an apartment, so that as they, you know, journey to get back into housing, they can access their own records. You know, where we sit and know that we're constantly assisting them at getting another state id or trying to locate their medical records so they can apply for benefits, if we could get all those records sort of in the cloud and be able to sort of grab them down as we need them and as they need them to search for housing and health care and whatever else they might need, that could be very beneficial to the country. >> It is really -- it will be a major success because if you could picture someone who goes to the emergency room, they get the paperwork. Many times between when they've gone to the emergency room and then they go to services they lose the paperwork and, therefore, many times they go right back into the same situation and they're not able to explain to the physician or the people helping them what exactly -- services they had to take care of them. This way, as Ann alluded to, it's through either a fun print or a number of something they can remember that then is loaded up and all that information can be accessed by that individual or people they give access to so that we would know, oh, well, you were just at the emergency room two days ago and you did already have a shot for that so we're not duplicating things and it will save money over the long run. It will help us to better look at how slides -- and not just -- I mean, I think any of us would like to have that. Who wants to carry around their health records for the rest of their life or can remember when they last had [10:32:23 AM] their shots for tetanus and it's those kind of things. I think this will make a huge difference. So that is a heighth difference and one of the Blumberg team that is really been working on and just recently had follow-up discussions. I wish Kerry was here to be able to give you an update but it is progressing and it will be something that will be very successful if we can make it happen. >> Mayor Adler: I'm really excited about that too. It's not only having the records accessible that way, which is obviously huge, there are lots of different ways that could be done, it's running into hipaa concerns because no one can share all that stuff, no one can hold all that stuff. So how do you gather -- if no one can hold it and no one can share it and the technology may give us that opportunity. I'm getting calls from all over because of the tie to the block chain technology. People are saying it's one of the first social service applications of that technology. >> And the existing homeless management information service can store a record, but it doesn't have access to records. So that's where we're -- it's not a big deal to be able to scan something in and store it. It's a big deal to be able to grab what you immediate and for the client to be able to have that with any of us, that would be nights. >> Mayor Adler: Okay. Thank you. >> Tovo: Good. So there are some really innovative strategies here that I think are in the works, and so that's very exciting. I had just one question, and we may not be angle to cover it. I know we need to get back on our agenda for the other items on here. I do have a and we I think it's probably for Stephanie Hayden or for housing about the nhcd project. While you all are coming up, I just want to make one comment about the restrooms. I think it absolutely is serving the needs of individuals experiencing homelessness and is very critical and I appreciate it comes up I feel the need to also say it is kind of a ongoing basic need we all have, and [10:34:25 AM] those who are visiting downtown or shopping downtown need restrooms too. So it's important I think for us to recognize that that's just an ongoing need, and I hope director Hayden, I know we're moving forward on getting our permanent solution and I'm excited about that. So the comment on page 7, the audit analysis on page 7 talks about psh units and that we are not going to reach our goal of 400 and then the particular project that I'm trying to recall what we did in various budget years, we may miss it. The report suggests we may miss it because the department wasn't able to solicit bids on a psh project. We were going to use money to build the units, but we didn't have dedicated funding for the support services. And a couple years -- I think it was not this budget cycle but the previous budget cycle we actually had on our concept menu if I'm not conflating issues, we had the money for services but were told the construction wouldn't be done in time so we removed it from consideration on the concept menu and I hope that is not at the same project because if we then made it difficult for that project to move forward, then we -- we just had misconfusion there about what the priority was on how to move that forward. Again, I may be conflating different psh developments, but if you could just address that briefly and if we need to follow up we can. >> Stephanie Hayden, Austin public health. So you are correct. So there were a couple of things that occurred. So when that solicitation was released, it was released strictly for units. And at that time no -- there were not any dollars put in to to do the the units. And so that was in the middle of our kind of budget [10:36:29 AM] process. And so nacd came back and we had follow-up conversations because that solicitation went out without the support dollars. And so for that reason they were at a point where they didn't have support dollars. The support dollars were then added after the fact because they had secured the vendor and we had the dollars on the concept menu, and so at that time they already had the contract to provide -- to do the units, and the units were not completed. So it was a combination of what you've said, and so the dollars came in at a later trajectory. And so they have the dollars as of today, and so as the units are coming on board, they are using those dollars to assist people that are within -- that are -- the dollars go to integral care so they are providing services to folks that are eligible to potentially be at oak springs. I will tell you, we always have to make sure that folks are given a choice for housing. So if folks -- the agreement at the department -- that the department made with integral care is that as those units come online if those individuals are not wanting to move into those units, they have to secure some additional funding from another source to continue providing services to those individuals. But if the individuals move over to oak springs, then those city dollars will follow that individual. >> Tovo: So is it accurate, though, that few vendors applied because there weren't service dollars included? Because, again, that brings me back to that budget discussion where we deliberately removed that from the concept menu because we had other priorities and it was said we didn't need those dollars and if those dollars kept us from getting a housing [10:38:30 AM] provider -- I don't want to talk about this and make anyone feel bad. I want to make sure we don't do it again. >> It was a combination of a couple of things, and I know Erica is here and she can kind of chime in from the perspective of neighborhood housing. And so -- but at the time when the solicitation was released, there were no dollars that were attached because we were in the -- we were even way before the project work was about to happen. So the timing was off. We knew we needed the dollars for support, but they should to go ahead and move forward with the solicitation so I'll get her to support that piece with you. >> Erica leak, neighborhood housing. I do think you're actually referring to a couple of different things if so there was initial solicitation where oak springs was the facility that was granted funding and we did figure out how to get money for services for that development. However the department did also put out a notice of funding availability the year after that and did not receive any responses to that notice of funding availability. And I would say it was largely for two reasons that we heard about. One is that sort of second solicitation did not have any funding for services associated with it. And in addition we heard that due to lack of land for affordable housing there just wasn't enough funding being offered to be able to cover the cost. So. >> Tovo: So two different projects, but I think the lesson for those of us on the council is that -- well, one, I guess I would ask -- [10:40:31 AM] I appreciate the audit highlighting this because I think this is an issue we really need to be aware of as decision makers. If a solicitation is going out that doesn't have service dollars and that's a key way that we get providers to step up and build that housing, then I would ask those of you who are here to please communicate to council, this is a high priority we may not get a housing developer come forward if we cannot find in the budget the money for the services. And then, two, the lack of land brings us back to the question of city-owned land and if that was the impediment in getting a provider to come forward then I think we need to really get some action on that discussion that we've been having for a long, long time now on what city-owned tract might have been appropriate for that project that had no solicitation -- I mean, that had no responses. Mayor? >> Mayor Adler: I'm sorry. >> Tovo: Okay. Thank you all for your work. I know we've veered from the audit a bit here today. It's an important discussion, and we appreciate all the dialogue on it, but is there a motion to accept the report? Councilmember alter moves acceptance of the report. Councilmember pool seconds that. All in favor? That is unanimous on the dais. Thank you, all. And that brings us to the African-American youth harvest foundation contract audit. Colleagues, we have this audit and then we have the result of the follow-up audit, the report from the interpretation and we do invent V an agenda item to talk about the commission. So we'll have to speed things up or move some things to next month. >> Certainly. Just a quick introduction on this. You'll notice this is a contract audit, and we have on this year's plan, as well as last year's plan, a contract audit initiative. Basically the city has millions of dollars in contracts each year, and so as y'all know last year we looked at workforce development contracts, we [10:42:31 AM] looked at our 380 agreements, which are another form of not quite contract but agreement 37 we looked at our process for managing campo subcontracts we're currently looking at our cultural arts contract, contract with visit Austin, city's contracts for home repairs and we also have an initiative to take kind of a higher level city-wide look at how we're developing, managing and monitoring contracts. So this is an audit that's part of that initiative and the team today, we have Andrew Keegan was the manager, Matt Clifton was the lead and he'll be presenting this audit today. >> Thank you, Corey. Good morning, committee members, Matt Clifton with the office of the city auditor. First I'd like to explain how this audit came about. Our office received an anonymous complaint against the African-American youth harvest foundation. We followed our normal process and performed due diligence on that complaint as a fraud investigation. While we saw some red flags, we noted that there were some process issues concerning Austin public health's administration of the youth harvest foundation's contracts, so at that point we decided that an audit with Austin public health as the audittee was a more appropriate way of examining the issues, and this presentation is a result of that audit. Although the issues we noted in this report are specific to the youth harvest foundation contracts, they may be applicable to other contracts as well, particularly the issues regarding the department's monitoring procedures. This audit's objective was to determine whether the city developed and monitored the two current contracts with the African-American of the city. The scope of our audit included the youth harvest foundation's two contracts summarized orient screen. The two contracts have a combined value of over $1 million. Austin public health developed and monitored [10:44:31 AM] these contracts. The youth resource center contract gives the youth harvest foundation funds to provide services for youth and families and the conferences contract is for the foundation to host youth conferences at local schools. Both contracts have multiple extension options built in, and both contracts have been amended several times. The report collides a graphic with more detail . Both contracts are up for renile in October. Renewal in October. Our audit found that Austin public health did not properly develop and effectively monitor the two contracts with the youth harvest foundation. Additionally the youth harvest foundation was unable to provide us with support for their financial and performance reports to the city under the terms of the contracts. The city's contracts with the youth harvest foundation make it difficult for Austin public health to monitor them effectively. This is despite the contracts appearing to align with the city's general contract development guidelines. The youth resource center contract allows the foundation to count clients served by their partner organizations towards their own performance goals. As a result it was unclear how many clients the foundation was serving directly. The contracts reference other sources of funding outside of the city for the youth harvest foundation who are paying for some of the same programs that the city contracts cover. However, there is no requirement that the youth harvest foundation indicate who is paying for what when they submit invoices to Austin public health. The contracts only require youth harvest foundation to submit a minimum of supporting documentation along with their invoices to Austin public health. This documentation is not detailed enough to show actual expenses. However, the youth harvest foundation is required by [10:46:35 AM] the contracts to retain detailed supporting documentation, such as bank statements, payroll records and receipts, which Austin public health can request at any time. However, Austin public health did not appear to request any more detailed supporting documentation when they approved payments. Among other things, this leads us to find that even if the two contracts with the youth harvest foundation had been developed to allow effective monitoring, Austin public health's monitoring process was ineffective. For example, instead of requesting detailed supporting documentation, Austin public health simply reviewed a profit and loss statement when approving the foundation's invoices. This statement only shows general categories of expenses and does not provide detail to determine if the expenses were allowable or justified. Austin public health did not ensure salaries for certain positions were paid in accordance with the contract's budget. Austin public health reviewed less than 1% of client files at an annual site visit when they attempted to verify performance. And Austin public health staff learned that another funder recently audited the youth harvest foundation and found $49,000 in over charges. However, Austin public health staff did not follow up on this. We attempted to calculate the impact of the lack of effective development and monitoring of the contracts but we encountered some challenges. The youth harvest foundation is required by the contracts to retain supporting documentation for charges and reporting performance to the city, and the city may ask for this documentation at any time. When we teamed to obtain complete supporting documentation for the foundation's payment requests, they were unable to to do the our request. As a result we were unable to verify the accuracy of payments made to the foundation by Austin public [10:48:35 AM] health. We were also unable to determine if the youth harvest foundation's reported performance was accurate. During our review of client files, we asked foundation staff for clarification. They stated that staff turnover at the foundation and the loss of institutional memory made it difficult for the remaining staff to determine the source of the reported figures. As a result we were unable to link client files with reported figures. We recommend that Austin public health ensure that payments made to the youth harvest foundation were in line with the contract and seek reimbursement where appropriate. We also recommend that Austin public health take steps to ensure more effective monitoring of the contracts. Management agrees with these recommendations. Their proposed implementation involves a review of payments and seek reimbursement for any payments that were unjustified or -- for unjustified or unallowable expenses. Management has also proposed making modifications to the department's current contract monitoring procedures and to provide training and technical assistance to staff. We're happy to answer any questions you have. >> Tovo: Thank you very much. Mayor? >> Mayor Adler: Thank you for this. There was a response to this audit that was given to us by email to all of us by Michael Lofton on Monday. Have you had a chance to read it? >> Yes, I've had a chance to review it as have my colleagues in the -- office of the city auditor. >> Mayor Adler: Would you address that? >> Certainly. Our message of the audit has not changed as a result of reviewing that response. I can go sort of section by section in the response that the youth harvest foundation provided and address that if [10:50:35 AM] you'd like that. >> Mayor Adler: I wanted to -- I mean, I don't know what that means. I don't want to spend all of the allotted time that the commitment has left doing that, but either that way or generally if you could respond. I don't know. >> Certainly. So -- >> Tovo: Before you do that I'll say we do have two speakers on this item. >> Mayor Adler: Okay. >> Tovo: One of whom is Michael Lofton. Would we like to hear the speakers and then ask questions of our auditor or do you want to ask questions of the auditor and then hear from the speakers? >> Mayor Adler: I guess probably I'd like to have your assessment of that first so when the speaker comes up he could address your -- >> Tovo: Sure. >> Mayor Adler: His statement. >> Certainly. So the audittee of this project was Austin public health, and that was made clear to the youth harvest foundation. This was a contract audit. Our office conducts many contract audits. This was nothing unique in terms of focus. The recommendations are to Austin public health, and, you know, the findings of the audit are addressed to Austin public health. The message here is that the contract requires youth harvest foundation to retain supporting documentation for charges that they made to the city and to support their reported performance. We asked for that information in line with the terms of the contract and the audit clause, and we were unable to obtain sufficient, appropriate supporting documentation that would justify payments that Austin public health made to the youth harvest foundation. >> Mayor Adler: Thank you. >> Tovo: Colleagues, any other questions before we go to our speakers? I have some, but I can save my questions for after. Councilmember pool. >> Pool: I guess we'll get to management's response? After the speakers then? [10:52:38 AM] >> Tovo: It's your pleasure. I think we probably should. It makes no difference to me. Maybe we'll hear from the speakers and then -- does that make sense? Okay. So our first speaker on this item, we have two, as I mentioned, is Sabine Coleman, and our second and last speaker will be Michael Lofton, unless anybody else wishes to address us on this item. Okay, Ms. Coleman, welcome. You have three minutes. >> Thank you for allowing us to come in and speak and respond and for reviewing the response and for all of the work that you've done. I think we're not disputing in any way, like the -- if the audittee being Austin public health, there are findings, you have to review contracts in order to do that. In the response it pretty much outlines everything that we have a concern about, so I don't necessarily need to go through all of it, but I will say that there was back and forth communication about a number of items where there were maybe a discrepancy, as you do in an audit, naturally, and then we were able to come up with something, another supporting documentation, called the insurance company, get the original policy, things like that. But until Friday we never heard about an $18,000 discrepancy, which was noted in the report, which is noted as a draft, but we only had the weekend to really respond before we're about to be in this meeting. So that was a concern. And because we weren't able to communicate, I had to actually go back, figure out how the auditors came up [10:54:38 AM] with their numbers. When I did that then it made me look in a different way with records that I haven't been familiar with. And, actually, I was relieved to see the numbers added up perfectly. There was just some information left off due to the extensions, class codes that were pulled in the original report when a full report was pulled of all expenses that the harvest foundation had we found that there were just additional class codes that included workforce development, family academy, an extension of the conferences. I'm not sure why it was set up that way in the system, but we found that. So I think it -- you know, our issue has to do with the timing of everything. The original extent of the request, which was included in the response as an exhibit, it's several pages long and really includes every piece of documentation the organization would have around programs, around any funding source for three years. Which we thought was excessive. There was no way that we could respond to that, so there was some delay, there was some following up saying, hey, this looks a little bit excessive, you know, what is the nature of this? And it was pared down significantly but there had to be some back and forth so that was also a delay at the same time. We were undergoing several audits. Everyone kind of knew that and understood that the finance director was no longer with us. [ Buzzer sounding ] So Michael will probably bring your attention to some other issues as well. >> Tovo: Thank you, Ms. Coleman. If you would just identify your relationship with the youth harvest foundation [10:56:39 AM] because you've had other roles in the community. >> Yes, I have. I've consulted with the harvest foundation actually since its inception. I wrote some of the proposals that were funded, actually, originally, when they first got their start I oversaw actually one of the contracts when they first got their start. And so independent consultant. I'm here on my personal time as a community, like a volunteer. >> Tovo: Thank you. Thanks very much. Mr. Lofton, welcome. Thank you for being here. >> Thank you very much. >> Tovo: Yes, if you would make sure, you know -- >> You can tell I come here every day, right? First and foremost, I'm really happy to be here and I want to thank the audit team for coming out and doing their diligence to audit us. Let me first start out by saying, you know, in the 12 years that we have been in existence, for us to have only one complaint from possibly a disgruntled employee, I think that speaks volume to our management and I can't speak to this person because I don't know. Let me say over the ten to 12 years we've done business with the city of Austin, aisd, we've passed every audit. When you take a look at the external audit -- and we have always had three levels of auditing. We have had a finance director. We have had a cpa, an external auditor by the name of Ashley and associates. And every year we have passed every audit, clean opinions, the whole 9 yards. We can provide those to the city of Austin and the audit office, which we have. Unfortunately -- and before I go to speak to aid, let me say this here: Whatever the city of Austin has asked of us over the past ten [10:58:39 AM] years by way of contract and performance and records, we have provided that. We can show you reports that we have passed every audit with the city of Austin, the whole 9 yards. There have never been really a finding, per se, that says we didn't do this or didn't do that. Whatever was asked for we gave to them. Whatever was asked for, Matt and the folks during this audit, we gave to them for the most part. What -- when we saw this draft, there were things that were being asked that we were not aware of. So, therefore, whatever is needed from the audit time, we have always made it above, as well as to the public health department. So it's not we're in the process of -- in the business of hiding documentation or what have you. There is no history or record of our do doing business with public health as it relates to us not providing them the necessary documentation that they have wanted for the audits. But let me take this one step further to talk about real brief the audit, and probably since it was brought up by the audit team with aid, it was politically motivated. It's untrue. We have litigation going on right now to address that. When you have an elected official that looks you in your face and tells you that "I don't have to support you because you didn't support me when we ran for office," then the bottom line is there's a conflict of interest and we are addressing that now. Everything that came out of aid is politically motivated and if y'all want to find out. [ Buzzer sounding ] -- I can assure you, I can bring you some facts to prove that, and so with that being said, whatever has been requested of us, we have given to them. It's not a fact of the matter that we haven't provided the city or anybody [11:00:40 AM] with what they want. And the claim with aid is totally preposterous and we got the facts. Again, we didn't get an exit interview here for the city of Austin, and we didn't get an exit interview with aid, and that's a concern when you come out and ask for an audit and then there's no exit -- there's no way that we should have received a draft. We are here at the table right now and someone didn't come and say, "Michael, we have these findings, can we talk about it?" You don't conduct an audit and then come and submit something to a board or a council or whomever without us having to see it, and it happened twice. So, I think, in terms of addressing equity, some of the inequities really needs to be looked at because if you're gonna audit me when it's over come and talk to me so we can address it. That's why some of the items that's in this here initial report wasn't brought up today. So whatever they want. And then during the time -- I'm going to wrap it up. During the timing of the request, we were going through two or three of the audits and when you take a look at our manpower and the staff capability that we have, we could not do three audits at the same time, and that's what was going on. So it wasn't a matter of trying to keep it. It's just we could only do one or two audits at a time, and it was in the middle of three other audits. So I appreciate it. But I welcome them and they can come back. It's just a matter that we were strapped for resources. Thank you. >> Tovo: Thank you both for being here, and are there any questions before they return to their seats? From the board? Okay. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Colleagues, questions? Let's see. Let's hear our management response, please, from public health. >> Stephanie Hayden, Austin public health. The department does -- you know, we always accept and [11:02:41 AM] appreciate, whether it's an internal auditor or another audit that occurs in our department, we look at these and we come in and look at systems that we have and we make improvements based on the recommendations. The department is currently looking at how we can -- and we started looking at this before this audit was put in place and completed, but the department is looking at several things. I will share with you, though, from the lens of, you know -- a few of the things that are here, we are gonna make some improvements. However, we're working with another team of city employees because we have been told over the years that there are a significant amount of requirements with social service contracts. And so a group of us are working together from the purchasing department. Myself, neighborhood housing, as well as economic development. And so we're going to -- we're looking at our contracting process to see if we can come up with another type of way to administer city funds. That is going to be called a request for grant application because what we've found from our small vendors is that our smaller vendors are really struggling to be able to adhere to a significant amount of the requirements. And so we are looking at this through an equity lens. We are going to do some community engagement. So the deviation with the profit and loss statement, the majority of our vendors do provide a general ledger. However, this particular organization was providing a profit and loss statement to [11:04:43 AM] us because they are a smaller organization. We had allowed smaller organizations to provide a profit and loss statement to us, and they're not the only vendor that we allowed that for. And so it's a pretty complicated process. We are looking at controls as well because we know we have to continue to be good stewards of the city's finances. But, however, we know as a city -- that's why this core team was formed -- is that we have to look at the contracting process and we have to look at it through a lens of equity. So I'll pause there because there may be specific questions that you all may want to ask, but we're wanting to really be fair to all vendors that are trying to have city dollars and balance the controls as well. So I'll pause right there. >> Tovo: Thank you. You have your light on. I didn't know if you were waiting for an opportunity to address? Okay. Very good. Councilmember pool. To say to Mr. Lofton and his staff, if the city in the contract did not require you to give information, then it's understandable that you would not have provided it. And so I think that's an important piece right there. And thank you for working with our staff and understanding that fiscal accountability is really important for the city and also for you so -- to prove up that you had spent the money the way that you had contracted with us to do. So I think that that relationship is a good one, and that is the appropriate kind of give and take and sharing of information. I think it's on the city for not having included in the contract the fact that this kind of accountability would be required and these are the kind of reports that would be needed. So it sounds like our staff acknowledged that and [11:06:44 AM] recognize it and they're working on that. So let me extend that one additional step further and address the fact that youth harvest is a small organization and the city is attempting not to be burdensome with its requirements for reporting. I have some experience with cultural contracting and the way the city staff support the small artists. Many of them individual artists who did not have background in finance or reporting but they are eligible to receive grants from the city for their work. So over the years -- and this predates -- this goes way back to the '90s when I was on the arts commission. We worked really hard with staff to create programs to help train artists on the bookkeeping and the reporting requirements that are specific to the cultural contracts program. Knowing that. And it seeps like that has been helpful for artists in the past so that the reporting structure is understood and followed and that is helpful then for the city to know where there's compliance. What sort of steps will staff be taking aside from trying to manage the detailed information that you're looking for? Because we do need to have it. It's pretty clear. And it should be standardized across the board so that the same kind of information is received from everybody. What kind of support training might we provide so that the smaller organizations or the knewer organizations might avail themselves of the training and be better reporters of their work, which helps them as well in understanding what their finances are. >> So the department currently has some contracts with smaller vendors that [11:08:45 AM] that are receiving what we're calling capacity-building grants. So those capacity-building grants -- and it's only a small group of vendors as far as the number, but with that capacity-building grant it allows them to have access to infrastructure services. So they're able to look at their finances. They're able to look at their bookkeeping. They're able to look at their program delivery. They're even able to look at their leadership team. And so that is current -- a standard practice that we have right now with a kind of select group of vendors. There is, you know, a cost for that because the city picks up that cost whether we're contracting with ACC's nonprofit center. And so that is a current process for us. Over the years, from the lens of kind of what staff have been able to do, is city staff have been able to provide some technical assistance to our vendors to just kind of walk them through. And so that's kind of where we get into the place of general ledger versus profit and loss because, you know, we've recognized that there are some opportunities for smaller vendors to give us a profit and loss and that does show us exactly, you know, what we're paying for, for example. The other example is, is that the department requires a financial audit. That audit is certified by a cpa, and that is submitted to our office on behalf of the auditor. So there's several controls that the department does have in place and there are currently ways that we are providing technical assistance. I think where we're at a place of a challenge is that as -- every year with the cost of living increase that comes to into the [11:10:45 AM] department, at this point the department has about $32 million worth of social service investments. And I only have a handful of staff that are managing those contracts. And so what we're -- what we're having to do is we're having to reevaluate. We have a smaller number of staff. We have a significant level of accountability. So I'm bringing in the full team to kind of look at if we were not to get any more folks, how can we ensure that we're doing the best that we can for accountability but then also be able to provide the technical assistance to service providers and then sure to connect them with the service to help them to, you know -- help them with their infrastructure. So it's a balancing act for us as well, but we know that we're at a place where we've got to address this. It is a priority for the department. And we're also going to look at doing some additional training for my staff because a significant amount of this work does kind of fall into more forensic accounting is what my staff have told me, and so we're having to look at, you know, how I can provide more training opportunities for my staff that are going out doing contract management. So I do have a resource issue. I'll just be transparent about that. >> Pool: Just to follow up, is the capacity grant something that youth harvest would be eligible to apply for? >> They will be eligible when there is funding, when that funding starts over with that. It's connected to a funding cycle. So there's a group of agencies. So in the meantime, you know, what staff can do -- well, let me take a step back. Our staff will have to -- and I talked to Mr. Lofton about this. My contract compliance unit team will go back out and [11:12:46 AM] they will conduct their monitoring visit. And that was actually on our schedule anyway. It did not have anything to do with this audit. We do annually. We do a risk-based assessment for our contract compliance unit team to go out to monitor. And so our team will be going out and we will be kind of going through this process here and basically, you know, kind of truing up and closing out this particular audit. So that is one thing that will happen. The contract management staff can meet with him and have conversations about supports that he may need. And so from that we could look for some resources and the ability to kind of connect them to that. >> Pool: That sounds great. Hopefully that will be of use and - - for Mr. Lofton. Great. Okay it. >> Tovo: Mayor. >> Mayor Adler: I'm -- it's good to hear, excuse me. I'm aware of the work you're doing taking a look more globally at how we deal with small organizations or organizations that might not have the in-house capacity. Even beyond those that we've identified and brought into the capacity-building framework, the kinds of things that Mr. Lofton has raised is not unique just to this particular provider. So I think that work is important so that we make sure that what we're doing is in fact fair and just and equitable in how we do our work, as well as building the capacity, but also making sure that we're not necessarily doing a one size fits all while at the same time being good stewards of [11:14:47 AM] public funds. So that's not an easy question, but I'm happy that you're doing that because I've gotten inquiries, as, you know, from more than just this organization raising virtually identical kinds of issues. I would ask that you let us know, certainly let the manager know, about the resources that you think that you need and give him notice that we'll be following up to see, whether that's a resource issue, training issue, efficiency issue. When we ear mark $35 million to be spent we really do need to make sure that it's being spent in a way that works and we're achieving the results and if we're spending that much money it seems as if it would be really smart for us to make sure that we at the very least know that we're spending that money well. So that's an issue that I appreciate being daylighted through this process so that we make sure when the manager is presenting the budget it's something that we can discuss. As concerns this particular audit, again, appreciate the work that we do with auditing and to daylight issues. Mr. Lofton has indicated that they didn't get the report until Friday to know the specifics that there would be a suggestion that they were $18,000 -- had received reimbursement for $18,000 that service wasn't provided. So I have two thoughts on that one. The first is that I don't know what the issues would be, but I would ask the question, when we issue an audit like this and there's a specific finding like that, as directed against -- towards somebody, it seems [11:16:49 AM] to me that we ought to provide that person the opportunity or that entity the opportunity to see it so that they can respond to it. And if we didn't do that it would be good -- it seems to me it would be good that we do that certainly before something like this gets posted and it becomesble and it's now -- becomes public and out in the public domain. Just as we combo to our own management people prior to issuing the report and say this is where we think we're coming from, do you want to respond to it? Or tell us something you think we're missing. Or something like that. I think we should provide that same thing in this instance. And to that end, vice chair we not accept this report today, pending the review that our staff is going to be doing where they actually go out to true-up the contracts. If it turns out that that's the result of that more in-depth look then I would suggest that we accept this. Because if that report goes out, if that study goes you out and as what may have been suggested that there was additional information that could have been shown but they weren't really aware of what exactly it was that was being looked for, if that happens, then we wouldn't accept this. And I'm afraid of accepting this and then trying to correct it later because you can't correct it later. >> Tovo: So what would be the time line, director Hayden, on those visits? Is that something that you could -- that your team can complete in the next week so that we could have this back in June? >> Our typical process is we send out a letter and let the agency know 30 days before that we are coming to do the visit. And so staff were going to send the letter this week. However, we would not be going out until June. [11:18:50 AM] And we always try to make sure that that date works for the vendor as well. >> Tovo: I see. >> So it's a little bit more -- >> Tovo: So August would be better. >> Mm-hmm. >> Tovo: I do see -- one other -- one of the recommendations from our auditor was -- unless I'm misremembering it, was to not provide notice of -- am I mischaracterizing that? >> Just a minor clarification. It wasn't so much the notice. I think what we were providing was we're coming on-site in 30 days and we need to see Z number of files, and that was more explicit than you would want just from an audit perspective. So it wasn't necessarily the notice, giving notice you're coming on-site to do the audit. We didn't have a question about. It was more the content of that notice and the specifics of what was going to be looked at when they arrived on-site. >> Tovo: So, director, Hayden, are you going to be issuing the notice letter in compliance with the suggestion from the auditor? >> So the report actually is really referring to client files. Because we typically let them know, you know, we want to look at this many client files. We always send -- and it's good, you know, kind of audit practice, monitoring practice, that you do alert the individual that you're coming out but you give them a high level we're going to be looking at fiscal, administrative, and programmatic so we will continue to do that because where we sat, kind of visiting with my staff, that is just a good practice to be able to let an agency know that you are coming because we're not investigators. And, you know, we see this as a partnership. So bell continue to provide the letter, but, however, what we can change is once we get there and does for the client files, then we [11:20:52 AM] can select the client files. But we typically do let them know that we're gonna do the programmatic, administrative, and a fiscal review. >> Tovo: Auditor, is that -- >> Yes. I was going to say -- >> Tovo: -- In alignment with your suggestion. >> We fully agree that that -- that the entity should be notified and, you know, we're going to look at files from these three months or this year, whatever. Our issue was they were saying I'm going to look at a file for this person, this person, this person -- >> Tovo: Right. So you guys are working on alignment. Fabulous. Councilmember alter and especially if this is coming back to us, I'd suggest we wrap up our discussion for today and see if we can knock off one other agenda item. >> Alter: Sure. I think this will be quick. I just wanted to he can dough the mayor's comments about if you need resources to be able to monitor and set up these contracts more effectively that I would also support that and I think it's one of the strategies that's listed in the strategic plan for healthy -- health and environment outcome. You've spoken about the smaller capacity grants and that process. And in the interest of time we can maybe have this offline but I am interested in a more comprehensive assessment, not just for the smaller grants, in terms of the contract management and the monitoring and making sure that we're having effective outcomes. So in the interest of time main we can have that conversation another time about what you're planning. But it's not just the small grants that we need to be monitoring, and this is something that for me is a big concern, not just for public health but for several departments in the city where we provide these grants and sometimes it feels like we're just throwing money at the wall and we didn't really know what we're getting out of them. But we don't have to have that conversation. >> Tovo: Okay. So there's been a suggestion from the mayor to not accept [11:22:53 AM] the report today. >> Mayor Adler: I'd like to correct that. >> Tovo: So absent a motion -- yes. >> Mayor Adler: I would say I would move we table it rather than not accept it. Or just not -- >> Tovo: I thought we were just going to fail to have a motion today. >> Mayor Adler: That would be fine too. >> Tovo: Tabling is, in essence we're just going to postpone consideration of whether or not to accept it until August. Is that acceptable to you, city auditor? >> Certainly. I defer to the committee on acceptance or not acceptance. I will say we have done a detailed review of the response, looked line by line of the evidence we had and how it lined up with the information provided in the response, and we did make some changes, so the final draft or the next version of the draft at this point does have some additional information. We were unable to get that in backup for today, but it does have, for example, a footnote about the overpayment by the city and whether or not, you know, that reconciles. I think, at the end of the day our concern was that regardless of the summary information provided there was summary information provided that was different with the response than what we originally received, but we still don't know the underlying data that supports kind of that -- the high level information about what the city paid. And so that's where the review by Austin public health I think needs to dig into does the underlying support which is out here -- I think we spent six months and many, many requests, several site visits trying to get at that information and were unable to obtain it, and that's the information that we really need to be able to determine whether or not the payments were accurate. And we certainly aren't saying services weren't provided or the payments were not accurate. We're saying based on the documentation we saw during that six months we really can't say one way or the other. >> Tovo: And so I guess it's probably accurate to say that we'll have more information back from public health about some of that information but the audit for the purposes of the audit that you did will not [11:24:55 AM] be changing between now and August. >> Correct. >> Tovo: -- Based on that visit. We'll just have more information before we have this discussion. >> Right. I can certainly distribute the version with the edits that would be the final draft. >> Tovo: That would be great. That's something then we'll have an opportunity to review before we see it back. And does August seem like the right team for it back? >> It would be September because we don't have an August meeting. >> Tovo: Then September sounds good. [ Laughter ] Ongoing. Mayor, did you have your light on to say something? >> Mayor Adler: No. >> Tovo: Okay. So we're going to have to make adjustments to the schedule to wrap up on time, close to time. It's my understanding that the addendum item is the most time sensitive. Hope mri that's a relatively -- hopefully that's a relatively short and snappy item. >> I have no idea, but -- >> Tovo: I guess we'll see. [ Laughter ] >> Yes. >> Tovo: Then if we can stay a -- it's my understanding that the integrity report is next. I'm not sure that I'll be able to stay well beyond 11:30. We'll have some chats. >> That's fine. We may want to talk about a special called meeting between June and September just because I know we have several audits lined up for June already. So moving these two items -- >> Tovo: We can certainly talk about it. We have an extremely challenging dynamic June already with the codenext meetings and -- [overlapping speakers] I'm just saying scheduling them is going to be a challenge, scheduling an extra meeting will be a challenge but we can certainly work on that. Taking up number 1, the addendum item, suggested change to the bylaws for the community development commission. >> Good morning, committee membranes. My name is Maria Allan, the manager of the neighborhood services unit. Today we're bringing back to you the CDC bylaws changes that were originally brought [11:26:56 AM] to you on March 5. These particular bylaw changes will help us ensure that we are in compliance with the requirements of the community services block grant. There are two changes that we brought to y'all in March that we're bringing back to you now, hopefully for final approval. The first change is to article 3c of the bylaws and essentially and addresses the lack of staggered terms that occurred after the transition to 10-1. And so basically what will happen is that after the current terms of the commission members and then the new members are selected for the 2019 community development commission, the city clerk's office is going to divide the members into two classes. And class one will consist of the seven appointed members nominated by council committee and appointed by the and thin class 2 will consist of the eight elected members that have been democratically selected that serve an initial two- year term. So basically that will then allow us to address the staggered terms. Article 3-g has also been recommended for the changes. Actually, it's now 3-h. And this particular amendment would allow the recommendation for removal for the members of the eight democratically selected members on the community development commission to actually -- if the commission needs to recommend that one of those members is removed, that recommendation would go back to the organizations that facilitated their selection. So they are in compliance with the community block [11:28:56 AM] grant that funds the neighborhood centers for the Austin public health department. And so those are the two changes that we're bringing back to you again today in hopes that they could be approved and we can move forward. We are anticipating the likelihood of another audit in the near future and so we would certainly like to be able to go ahead and move forward with these two changes if they are in agreement of the audit and finance committee. >> Tovo: Thank you. Mayor. >> Mayor Adler: So can you help me understand, some of these things are required for us to be in compliance with the CDC. What are the things that are necessary for us to do to be in compliance? Because there's also a change that changes the mayor to the council. Is that necessary for compliance? >> Yes, sir. That is also necessary. So in 2015 actually we had a monitoring visit from the Texas department of housing and community affairs. They cited a deficiency, a concern and an observation. The deficiency had to do with the fact that we had 16 members at the time which was not division I believe by three -- division I believe by three. We directed that deficiency back in October of 2016. The concern and observation had to do with the fact that currently the mayor nominates the members on the commission that represent the public and private sectors. You all may remember that the community services block grand requires us to have a tripartied board for the community services block grant and the public and private sectors, those members had been nominated before the change to 10-1 by the mayor. So one of the things that we had recommended in a previous meeting to change was that those you members would be actually nominated by a committee of the council. We also took that back at the request of the committee to the community development [11:30:58 AM] commission. They supported those recommendations that the staff had made, so that is one thing that we need to do to come into compliance to make that change. >> Mayor Adler: And that's because the CDC says that having the mayor nominate and the council approve is not consistent with the federal standards? >> Yes, sir, that is my understanding. That was a concern that they had told us about in the monitoring visit. >> Mayor Adler: Do you know what the concern is if the council is approving all the nominations as to where the -- approving all the appointments, why they're concerned about where the nomination comes from? >> We did ask them that question, and in the spirit of making sure that, you know, all the councilmembers have the opportunity to make those nominations, they felt that it would be better for us to have a different structure in order to be in compliance. Right now it is not listed as a deficiency, but it is listed as a concern, which then could become a deficiency if we did not take action to correct that. So that's why we had come back asking for the possibility of changing that to a committee of the council instead of just the mayor to be able to nominate those seven members. >> Mayor Adler: So I guess at some point I need to understand better the legal reg that's violated by having the council approve, but having the mayor nominate. >> Sandra Kim with the law department. Is your question why the mayor can't nominate all I think seven? >> Mayor Adler: Can't nominate subject to council approval. >> So chapter 6 of the Texas administrative code regulates how the state would be administered the cdbg grant dollars and the Texas department of housing and community affairs is the department that manages these monitoring visits and renders these decisions. So we were in contact with their office and they're the ones who kind of further elaborate and explain what [11:32:59 AM] the -- how to interpret the administrative code for this particular grant and that's what we were informed. So my reading of chapter 6 doesn't explicitly state that the mayor could not nominate, but again the department's interpretation of that section, they've explained that they would prefer that the committee, a body, be in charge of making the nomination that the council as a body would have to approve or appoint. It's the best response I have. >> >> Mayor Adler: Before this comes back to council if you could help me better understand that. I can understand in the reading of the regs that you want to have this approved by the entire body, but I'm just missing anything that would indicate the nominating process. This suggests a council committee, so it's not even all of the city being involved in nominating the people, whereas the mayor, because he's elected or she's elected citywide, would at least have the entire city involved in the nominating process. So if there's something in the regs that says that it would be better to have some subset of the city doing that, I'd just like to better understand the basis for that. >> We could certainly go back to the Texas department of housing and community affairs and see if they could also assist us in getting you a better response. >> Mayor Adler: That would be good. And that's my concern from when we talked about it. >> Tovo: I don't see that change on our spreadsheet. >> So that particular change was actually brought to a prior audit and finance committee meeting. So yes, that was our understanding that that had already been approved and moved forward. So the changes, although the changes that we are bringing forward today, you know, I guess that change hadn't gone -- of course to the full council, 'em. >> Tovo: One thing I want to consider between now and when it does go to council is whether it should be a council committee or split [11:34:59 AM] them between two council committees, the public health committee and the housing committee. So that just -- just to highlight that potential. Okay. So we have the other changes in front of us. Is there a motion to make a recommendation to the full council that we adopt those bylaw changes? The first one is to article 3 C for staggered terms. The other one is article 3-g, allowing the recommendation to come from the board and formal approval by council for the community members. >> Pool: I'll move. >> Tovo: Councilmember pool moves approval of those two items. Sorry, three items. Would you like to move approval of the financial statements? >> Pool: Yes. >> Tovo: Okay. Is there a second on those? Councilmember alter seconds those? Is there discussion? >> Alter: I just wanted to ask that before it comes to council if you can also clarify -- I'm not really sure I'm understanding how the eight members get chosen and those geographic areas democratically by organizations. I don't really know what that means. So we don't have to do that right now, but at some point. And I think that we will need greater clarity about or some options with respect to council committee. One option is the one that the mayor pro tem suggested, but we will have to get more specific than just council committee, I'm afraid. >> Mayor Adler: I'm confused. I've been handed a red-line. Is the red type the new language? >> Tovo: I believe the blue type -- as I understand it the blue is what we have previously approved at audit and finance. The red is what we're being asked to approve today. And the red corresponds with the amendments that were on the spreadsheet which were just moved for approval by councilmember alter -- pool, not alter. >> Mayor Adler: So I'm going to vote no on this so [11:36:59 AM] as to flag this issue which to me is still open until I get some additional information. >> Tovo: Do you want to take them up one by one then? >> Mayor Adler: No. I think that will just flag the concern. >> Tovo: Councilmember pool. >> Pool: As long as you are going to go back and get some clarification on who should be making the nominations, you might indicate that there was disagreement about it because I do think that it is -- I think it brings more voices to the table if more people are able to make those nominations. And I would support the suggestion that the mayor pro tem made that we also clarify that the council committees can come in and make those nominations. We have done that -- the last one we did, was can for -- help me remember. Which bylaws did we approve at our last meeting and we did a postponement so we could put together a process -- joint sustainability, that's correct. We got hung up on this same thing sort of, who is going to make the additional consensus or at least appointments -- nominations to a committee. And it was the will of the dais at that point, which I joined, to have it be open to council committees. The one that was missing was public health, so that's specific to that situation. But I do think that it would be useful to alert the other councilmembers that these nominations are open so that an array of people can be nominated so that we can have a really good panel to choose from. >> Tovo: I just want to say that I remember the committee on committees looking and making recommendations. I don't remember any real thorough discussion. I may have forgotten it now, but I don't remember any full discussion about all of those recommendations. There are several boards that change to being nominations from the mayor, [11:39:00 AM] so I'm not sure what the rational was in making those recommendations from the committee on committees before the 10-1 transition, but I do think in several cases we should go back and take a look at that. I mean, there are a couple that -- where we have no ability to make nominations as a council. Okay. Thank you for bringing those changes to us. All those in favor of this item on the 3? Any opposed? The mayor. That passes on a vote of 3 to one. We will take up the other items at a later meeting and so we will stand adjourned. Sorry to be running behind on those other items.