Audit and Finance Committee Meeting Transcript (AFC) – 12/15/2021 Title: ATXN-1 (24hr) Channel: 6 - ATXN-1 Recorded On: 12/15/2021 6:00:00 AM Original Air Date: 12/15/2021 Transcript Generated by SnapStream Please note that the following transcript is for reference purposes and does not constitute the official record of actions taken during the meeting. For the official record of actions of the meeting, please refer to the Approved Minutes. Yes, let's go ahead. [00:00:01] Okay. good morning. atx any ready? Good morning. [9:33:31 AM] My name is alison alter and i'm chair of the audit and finance committee. Um, um, alone on the dias here in city hall and joined by three of my colleagues, virtually council member pool kelly, and tavo. Um, the mayor has let us know that he will not be joining us. I would like to convene the audit and finance committee. It is 9 34 on december 15th. So i will call this meeting to order, um, this morning, we're going to take up each item as posted in order for a change. [9:34:35 am] Um, and i believe that we should have more than enough time to cover all of our items this morning. Hopefully we'll be able to give you back a little bit of of time. Um, we have a drill in the background, so, and no, one's up here on the diastal. I have taken my mask off so you can hear me. Um, it's a little bit challenging and, uh, hope everyone will bear with us if you're hearing that noise as well. [9:35:32 am] We have, uh, i have down for speakers for citizens communication. I think what i'd like to do is take up the speakers with the item because i think that'll make it more coherent and less people have to leave. Is that okay with the four of you? Okay.so please remind me to do that if i forget.so first item [1. Approve the minutes of the audit and finance committee meetmg of november 10, 2021.] Of business is to approve our minutes. Um, do i have a motion to approve the minutes? Council member pool makes that motion seconded by council member kelly, all those in favor unanimous on the dias council member. Tovo do you vote in favor of the minutes? Are you off the diocese? So for now we will have, um, council member tovo considered off the dyess for that vote. [9:36:35 am] [2. Briefing on city pension systems.] The next item that we are taking up is a briefing on the city pensions. This is our annual briefing on the three pension systems provided by staff at the end of each calendar year. It covers our actuarial assumptions, our investment returns and the impacts of recent legislative changes. I'm happy. We were able to make those adjustments for the longterm health of aprs that will be, um, discussed during this, uh, presentation. Um, council member tovo has joined me on the diocese, um, council member. Tovo we just voted on the amendment amendment minutes. Would you like us to record you as voting? Yes, please do. Thank you. Okay. So for the minutes we will note council member tovo as voting. [9:37:32 am] Yes.um, and we are now on item two, bringing up the pensions. If it is too loud on your end, feel free to move over here. They couldn't hear me too well with the drills. I have my mask off. If it bothers you, let me, let me know. Um, okay. So do we have not sure who's presenting belinda. Good morning chair and committee members. Um, i have a presentation you get that pulled up. What's the name of your presentation? Um, it is version two of the, um, the pension update. Give us one second. Sure. Share. [9:38:35 am] I might recommend moving onto another item if you'd like while they get that presentation ready for me. Sure. Except the next item also has a presentation, i believe. Um, for item three is the abel she's trying to be quick and me a second. I saw it on our agenda documents this morning, if that's helpful. Great. Thank you. Okay, ms. Belinda waver. Sorry for the delay. Thank you. Great. Okay. So good morning, uh, chair and committee members again for city treasurer and i am here today to present the annual update for the city of austin's pension plans first, um, as i always do, i'll provide a brief overview of the three plans and then we'll provide an update to the financial and actuarial metrics for each of the plans. [9:39:32 am] And, um, we'll end the presentation with a brief overview of the recent legislation passed in the 87th legislature for the city of austin's police retirement system. Next slide please. So the city of austin has three employee based pension plans. All three of the plans are defined benefit plans and all three plans were created by state law. So statute does govern the benefit and contribution provisions among other things, and any amendments to the law can only be made by the legislature. [9:40:35 am] Each of the pension systems have an independent board of trustees and each board has a different composition of elected officials, management, appointees, employees, and retirees. In addition, um, employees, retirement system and, and the police retirement system, each half citizen at large trustees, um, regarding city representation on the boards for the employees retirement system. It is council member pool, along with deputy cfo, diana thomas for police. It is, uh, council member tovo along with deputy cfo, diana thomas and myself and fire by statute has the mayor as the chair and, uh, the city treasurer. So myself is on that board as well. [9:41:32 am] Next slide please. So this just lists the pension system eligibility for the three systems for the employees retirement system. It's all regular full-time employees, excluding civil service police and fire, but it does include ems employees. There are two groups associated with the employees retirement system group, a are employees hired before january 1st, 2012 and group b as employees hired on for after that date for the austin police retirement system. It is all commissioned law enforcement officers and cadets upon enrollment in austin's police academy. I do want to note that there will be two groups associated with the austin police retirement system effective january 1st, 2022. [9:42:33 am] And we'll get into that a little bit later when we discuss the legislation for the fire system, it's all commissioned civil service in texas state certified firefighters with at least six months of service employed by the austin fire department. Next slide please. So this just details the contribution rates for the three systems. I do want to note that this is as of september 30th, 2020, um, and it is information that's provided by the city's annual comprehensive financial report said for the employee system, there is a total contribution of 26%, again, as of september 30th, 2020, but i do want to mention that as of january 1st, 2021 city contributions did increase by 1%. So those are currently at 19% for a of 27% for the employees retirement system. The police total contribution is, uh, right at 34% with 13% from employee contribution and a little over 21% from the city. [9:43:35 am] There were contribution changes as part of the recent legislative changes. And we'll discuss that a little bit later as well. Um, for fire, the total contribution is right at 40.75% with employee contribution at 18.7 and the city contribution a little over 22%. Um, i do always mention that firefighters are the only system with the city that do not participate in social security and listed here on the bottom row are city contributions expressed in dollars. Next slide, please, for plan membership, as you can see here, the employee's retirement, that sim is by far the largest of the three systems with over 20,000 members polices almost at 3000 and fire as the smallest of the plans with a little over 2000 members. [9:44:32 am] And this is all as of december 31st, 2020 next point for retirement eligibility for the three systems. Again, this is as of december 31st, 2020 employees. Um, as i mentioned earlier, have, uh, two groups group and group b, they have different retirement eligibility is associated with those two groups for green bay. It's 20 years of service at age 55, 23 years of service at any age and any number of years at age 62 and for group b, um, it is 30 years of service at age 62 and five years of service at age 65 for police. [9:45:31 am] Um, as of december 31st, they are retirement eligibility and mirrors brief a of employees. But as i stated earlier, there will be two tiers, um, effective january 1st, 2022, and it will be reflected next year. And we'll discuss it a little bit later for fire. The retirement eligibility is 10 years of service at age 50 and 25 years of service at any age. Next slide please. So this slide shows certain key actuarial assumptions you use in the city's pension plans, most recent actuarial valuations, and what this is actuaries actually use this, these assumptions to estimate the offending amount that will be needed to pay future benefits for each of these systems. You can see listed here. [9:46:35 am] I have inflation rate, payroll growth and investment return. Those are three major assumptions. The inflation rate is general underlying annual inflation. And this rate is a component of several other actuarial assumptions. The payroll growth rate, this varies by pension fund and it's actually calculated by historical experience and also projected future growth. And the investment return rates is the investment returns expected on the assets of each system. And this directly impacts the plans, liability, calculation, and contribution requirement. The investment return rate is an assumed rate that reflects a five-year period of smoothing, and that smoothing is used in order to reduce volatility in the actuarial calculation. [9:47:31 am] So as you can see here, the inflation rate is consistent among the three funds. They're all a 2.5% payroll growth varies from 2.5 to 3.5% of mine. The funds and investment return is 7% to 7.3%. I'm going to three funds. Next slide please. So following up on the actuarial assumptions, we just discussed this, uh, this slide details, the actuarial calculations from the most recent actuarial evaluation for each of the pension funds, and we're not gonna go over all of them, but the key ones in my opinion to focus in on are, um, the unfunded accrued liability. And this is the difference between the pension plans, liabilities, less their assets. So in other words, it's the amount of benefits accrued in which no funding has been set aside and hand in hand with that. [9:48:31 am] Um, when an unfunded liability does exist in actuary, um, determines the number of years or the amortization period, it will take to fund that invented liability. So for example, in fires case, it has an infinite accrued liability of 154.5 million and an amortization period of 23.3 years. So the actuaries have calculated that it will take the 23.3 years to fully fund that unfunded liability of 154.5 million sheriff got a question for ms. Reed sweeper. Yes. [9:49:35 am] Belinda, can you, are you also going to talk about actions that the city of austin as a plan sponsor for, for the, uh, co-chairs and aprs specifically took last year in order to improve some of these, the amatorization period and the funded ratio? Yes. And we'll discuss that and they, at the end of the presentation, i'm going to go through those legislative changes. So that's great. Thank you. Thanks. Um, and then finally, just the funded ratio, um, this is just a standard pension benchmark, and that is the ratio of assets to liabilities. [9:50:31 am] This ratio indicates the extent to which each of the plans has enough assets set aside to pay for those accrued benefits. And it's simply just a mathematical computation where the actuarial value of assets are divided by the actuarial accrued liability liability. Next slide please. So here we have detailed the pension systems, um, investment returns as of december 31st, 2020. And as you can see, all three systems, um, had great returns and employees, uh, was at 10.7, 8% for 2020 police at 11.44 and fire at 12.9%. Um, also listed are the three-year or, and ten-year returns. And these are weighted average returns, as well as the same actuarial investment return rate for each of the system. Just as a reference point, um, [9:51:33 am] Regarding everything listed on this slide, there's really two takeaways from this first is just knowing it is prudent to monitor portfolios on the short term, but not lose sight of the fact that these pension funds are long-term investors. And then also knowing that all portfolios do go through cycles where they perform really well at times, i think 2020 is a great example. All three of the funds performs really well from an investment perspective, but there are other times where they're going to lag their peers and or benchmarks next flight. So finally, i wanted to touch on recently passed legislation for our police retirement system. [9:52:35 am] Prior to this year, this system had significant funding deficiencies, including an infinite fending period. And as you saw in the previous slide, and it's currently at a 30 year amortization period now due to these recent legislative changes and the city and police retirement system did work together towards a solution to ensure the long-term sustainability of the system. And i have listed here a high level and details of that approved legislation. So first, um, there was creation of a new route va reap the benefits here, and this is for police officers and cadets hired on or after january 1st, 2022. The multiplier was lowered for this benefit tier, um, from 3.2% to 2.5%, the retirement eligibility was changed as well. So, um, it moved from 2023 years of service at any age to 25 years of service at age 50. And then also the average final compensation for benefit calculations are now based on the highest 60 months of salary instead of 36 months. [9:53:31 am] In addition member contributions did increase. Um, they increased from 13 to 15% of earnings and member contributions can also increase by an additional 2%, which would total 17% of earnings. If the ada corridor maximum is reached and i'll get into that right now, um, regarding what the ada is and this four-door next slide, please. So one huge component of this legislative change is moving aprs from a fixed rate contribution model to an actuarially determined contribution model, which we refer to as the deck much easier to say. Um, so with the fixed rate contribution model, and it's what our employee system is under. It's what fire is currently under a multitude of other funds throughout the state are under this fixed rate contribution, really contributions are static. They're fixed at a certain percentage of earnings and they don't change as funding requirements for the systems change. [9:54:32 am] However, this eight f model, um, contributions do change, they do have the ability to change, and it's based on actuarial analysis, that's done by the system's actuaries at the end of each year to determine funding requirements for the system. And because of that and to provide some volatility constraints, the city, um, for city contributions, there is a court or built into legislation regarding, um, the ability of the, um, contributions to go no higher than 5% of a court or mid point and no lower than 5% of a port or mid point. Now this port or midpoint is actually established, um, by the system actuary. And it's done through actuarial analysis that was based on december 31, um, numbers for 2020.um, and in addition, in relation to this act, there was also, um, a legacy liability carve-out. And what that is is essentially, um, w we, the city carved out the unfunded actuarial approved liability as of december 31st, 2020, and put it on a payment plan for payoff in a 30 year period. So i kind of equate it to a mortgage. [9:55:35 am] The unfunded accrued liability was calculated.those funds were then separated from this ada calculation and put on a 30 year amortization to be paid off within that 30 year period. And this is paid for fully from city contributions and then city involvement. And the experienced study process for aprs is a huge component of this legislation. So experienced studies are performed at least every five years by the pension systems, is this dictated by state law. And these studies determine if any changes need to be made to actuarial assumptions that are currently being used by the system. And as discussed earlier, these actuarial assumptions have a direct impact on the spending status of the pension system. So in the aprs legislation, the city does have involvement in that experience study process. And this includes review of the experience study conducted by the [9:56:32 am] System, the ability to, um, hire a separate actuary for the city to conduct its own experience study, and also request that a third party actuary come in. If there are major discrepancies between the two experience studies that are conducted, and finally the increased city contributions are being phased in over three year period. This is incorporated for budgetary purposes. And, um, that is kind of in a nutshell, the major components of the eight act, um, that actuarial determined contribution model and moving on to governance, there was a one active member seat that was replaced with one citizen seat appointed by city council. This was approved by city council in november and michael trade-off will be starting his term on the aprs aprs board in january. And then finally i'm benefit enhancements and member eligibility at previously, the board of trustees have the ability to provide benefit enhancements, cost of living adjustments, as well as modified member eligibility requirements. This has been removed as part of this legislation. So any of those types of changes will now need to go through the legislature for approval. Absolutely. So this concludes my presentation. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Okay. Thank you. Um, ms. Weaver, if you could, um, clarify, um, so you mentioned that the more desertion rate for aprs after the changes was what was on the list for the chart that listed it, um, as 32 on slide eight, um, was that accurate or because the slide says all of the other slides were as of 12, so it's 12 30, 1, 20 20. [9:57:45 am] So that actuarial calculation, um, it does carve out the unfunded actuarial accrued liability as of 12 30, 1 20 20. The camera period is the amount of time it takes to fund that unfunded liability as of that date. So, yes. Okay. So the 32 year amatorization period that's on slide eight is not the one that is operational now because we made the changes. So the 32 years is for the employee system. The 30 meters is for the, i guess what i thought was it was infinite at the time that we went into this. And so that's what i'm trying to understand. That's correct. So, um, the reasoning behind this is, again, that, um, as part of the legislation, the organization, or i'm sorry, the unfunded accrued liability that was parked out as part of this legacy liability carved out what all defended accrued liability as of december 31st, 2020, which is the date of this actuarial valuation. So that unfunded accrued liability has been harmed out and is put on a 30 year amortization period, which is so in the calculations for the 12 31, 20 20, it is already packed. I just confusing because you're presenting it before the changes, and then you're presenting it after the changes. And i, and i'm not understanding which one has the changes in which one doesn't given the way that you're presenting given the way that you are presenting it. So, and i, i apologize for that confusion. So yes, and the 30 year amortization period is reflective of the legislative changes and was part of that actuarial evaluation that was done by some actuary for the period that ended december 31st, 20, 20. Okay. So everything, but the, um, contribution stuff that you presented is what it is moving forward, not what it was prior to the changes. Right. Okay. Thank you. And then, um, we have talked a lot about the return over the years and what those assumptions are. Um, so one question is, [9:58:47 AM] >> Alter: Did we change the term? I thought that we changed the return assumptions through the legislation for aprs, did we do that? >> Those actuarial assumptions are set by the board of trustees. >> Alter: Okay. >> It's not -- >> Alter: Okay. >> It's not in the legislation. >> Alter: So then red to that, we have talked a lot about the assumed actuarial return, but not a lot about how the inflation rate might impact the pensions and now that we are experiencing some inflation that we haven't experienced recently, can you explain how that will impact returns? >> So, regarding the investment returns and of themselves. And as far as from the actuarial perspective, it is a component of that return rate. So looking forward and the [9:59:49 AM] impact from an actuarial perspective, that will be factored in and in any sort of investment return assumption rate moving forward in the future. It is a separate component. So, again, the investment return rate, maybe I'm not stating this correctly, or clearly, but that the investment return rate that is used as an actuarial assumption, it has two components. It has the real return rate. So it does factor in both components. And so the 7%, for example, for employees, and it has a 2.5% inflation rate component and then a 4.5% real rate. So -- which combined makes that investment return rate of 7% for the actuarial assumption. >> Alter: I guess that I'm [10:00:49 AM] asking if the inflation rate is higher, how is that impacting -- >> So I think -- >> Alter: Higher than the assumption, how does that impact? How do we need to think about the returns? >> From -- are you talking about the actual realized returns for the system? >> Alter: Yes. So we have a change in our economic conditions that we have rising inflation, and I'm asking how does that rising inflation impact how we need to be understanding our pensions and their status? >> So from an investment return rate perspective, those investment returns are reviewed monthly by -- or excuse me -- quarterly by the investments -- excuse me -- by pension systems. Having the inflationary rate higher at a specific point in time I don't think that is going to impact the system immediately, but when looking -- [10:01:51 AM] I mean, I'm looking at this more from an actuarial perspective. Because if it's sustained inflation and when we're looking at our experience studies that are conducted every five years, we're looking at historical inflation and we're looking at what we project in the future. And that assumed actuarial rate is going to be a component of that investment return rate moving forward for the system, and used in the calculations for the funding status of the system in the future. >> Alter: So I understand how it plays in the calculations. What I'm trying to understand is if there are risks that we need to be concerned about in a period of higher inflation? >> You know, I think that it goes back to -- as I stated -- [multiple voices] >> Alter: I'm just asking if I need to be concerned about that. >> I think that as it stands right now, it's not a concern. It's something that I think that [10:02:51 AM] is being monitored by all of the pension systems as well as the investment consultants. Sorry -- councilmember pool did you want to? >> Pool: Well, I was going to just offer because of the seven-year smoothing, that investment impacts, we are in a unique and economic environment coming out of the pandemic and everything. So even if we were to say, well, we'll look back at hyper inflation and its impacts on pension funds, say, two decades ago, that still wouldn't apply I don't think to what's going on here. And that's why we have the active and the passive monitoring by each of the three pension boards of trustees and their excellent staff to kind of keep -- and we also have pretty high-powered consultants who are helping to advise us financially on our status and our choices of purchases whenever we -- whenever we expand our investments. The other thing that I was going to suggest, Belinda, based on [10:03:55 AM] what councilmember alter's questions were on the changes to the criteria for the three pension plans -- maybe if you have a slide that showed what they were a year ago, like take that slide from a presentation from a year ago, and then you can show the shift after this legislative session and where the contributions changed based on what they were last year, rather than simply showing us what they are going forward. >> Yes, I can definitely do that in next year's presentation. >> Pool: Or maybe send us that slide from last year and then we can line it up ourselves and I think that would help explain where we were a year ago. Thanks. >> Alter: Colleagues, other questions? So Ms. Weaver, again, the way it is presented makes it really challenging to follow because you have some things as eligible at this point and then you're [10:04:55 AM] changing it back and forth. And then you have the changes. So you mentioned -- let's figure out where it is. And you have the old rates, because we're looking back at September, but the December calculations are based on -- I mean, there's something weird about how this is presented in terms of how things are going. But you said that -- >> It did, January 1st, 2021, the city contribution rate did go up to 19%. >> Alter: Okay. >> That is part of the calculations as of December 31st, 2020. Moving forward. And when the actuaries are reviewing and doing their [10:05:56 AM] calculations for their evaluations, they do project, and that is 19% is factored in for the employees' retirement system. So I did want to mention it. But -- >> Alter: Factored in when we're looking at it -- the status as of December 31st, 2020, in terms of what's going to happen, after that goes into the calculations? >> Exactly. >> Alter: Okay. But at that time it was not these numbers -- these were the percentages but now we're looking back at 12/31/2020 and projecting it based on the new -- >> Well, it's projecting it forward. >> Alter: So you're presenting us our pension results a year -- a year ago, but they are based on projections from the changes that we've made? >> Exactly. >> Alter: Okay. >> That's correct. >> Alter: So if there are no other questions, I thank [10:06:58 AM] Ms. Weaver for being here. You know, the aprs changes that we make get really complicated really quickly, and, you know, everyone on this committee was involved in a pension working group and was very involved in supporting efforts to make these changes at the legislature. I want to give a shout out to representative Rodriguez who really helped us move this legislation through and helped us in working with aprs to come to a mutually agreeable solution that is really important for the fiscal health. It gets technical really quickly. But it -- but it helps us to adjust the risk and it helps us to make sure that we're providing the benefits promised to our police officers. So thank you to staff for -- for working on that. Councilmember pool? >> Pool: Yeah, I agree with what you're saying, and the role that [10:07:58 AM] representative Rodriguez played and he really made it possible for the legislation to pass and the reforms were imperative. And it allowed the city of Austin and aprs to continue to control its destiny with regard to this particular pension fund as opposed to shifting into, you know, into any other hands. So I think that also was clearly necessary. I'm hopeful that we have good results from our work on continuing the reforms that are in the next couple years as well. >> Alter: I also want to thank the aprs leadership and board for joining us in these efforts to make everything fiscally sound. It's important, and we are partners in ensuring that we have the appropriate returns to provide the retirement to those who served our city. So, thank you. And the next item is item 3. Briefing on able and the operations of financial information of the Hilton hotel [10:09:00 AM] at austin-bergstrom international airport. Who is making the presentation? [10:10:06 AM] >> The presenters -- >> Can Y hear me? >> Alter: Can you speak up a little? It's a little bit hard to hear you. >> I hear you, it's just a little quiet. >> Thank you. I know that Tracy Thompson is also supposed to -- >> Alter: If you just speak up slightly louder, we can hear you. We have sound, it's just not super loud. >> Oh, okay. All right. >> Alter: That's perfect. >> I'm sorry, I'm waiting for my colleague, Tracy Thompson, to -- >> I can go ahead and add Tracy for you. Give me one second. Thank you. [10:11:07 AM] >> Good morning. >> Alter: Good morning. >> Good morning. >> Alter: Whenever you are ready, thank you, Ms. Thompson. >> Thank you very much. My name is Tracy Thompson and as we have promised you last may, we were coming to bring you an update on our wonderful Hilton hotel at the austin-bergstrom international airport. If you'll go to the next slide, please. And so brief introductions -- again, I am Tracy Thompson and I'm wearing a double hat, I'm the chief officer for administrative and external affairs. And also the interim airport chief officer for our development capital program and also the vice president of austin- bergstrom landhost enterprises, the acronym is able. And joining me today is my colleague rajeev Thomas, the airport deputy chief of finance. And also joining us today is Jackie yaft, our director of the department of aviation and the CEO for austin-bergstrom [10:12:07 AM] international airport. So thank you so much for inviting us back to have this brief update. Next slide, please. So what we're going to give you today is a very short update and we're welcome to take any questions if you have any questions about the hotel or we'll give you a financial update as we promised that we would on a quarterly basis. Regarding the progress of the Hilton hotel as it transitions out of the pandemic as the airport is transitioning out. And then we'll also give you slides with a comparative analysis to other airport hotels. Unless you have any questions we'll go ahead and get started and respect rajeev will present the financial update. >> Good morning, chair and councilmembers. I am rajeev Thomas. Next slide, please. Next slide, please. Okay. So, just to give you a little background, you know, back in may, you know, we came to the [10:13:08 AM] council to ask for an approval of the operating loan. And we had stated at that time that we would come back and give you an explanation on the financial performance of the hotel and how it is progressing year-to-date. So what this -- what these results present is from January through September, all that has been performed. And I indicated in about three columns here, which is January and June and September, to kind of give you an idea about how the performance of the hotel has prompted progress throughout the year. You know, initially back in January and February you could see our occupancy rates were very low. And, you know, and I would say -- sorry -- since the beginning of the pandemic, you know, our occupancy rates through January, February, was around 20% to 30%. And, you know, we were in the red all those months. You know, we had asked for a operating loan to pay back all [10:14:09 AM] of those past payables that we had accumulated. As you can see from these charts, starting in March, as the vaccinations became more available to the general public, the travel industry started to recover. You can see that the occupancy rates improved from 20% to 30% to 51%. And stayed at about 15% until June. And kind of leaped up to 60% to 70% and continued through September. So the performance really improved. Our average daily rates also as you can see steadily made a climb up too, along with that same time frame. And we started to realize about $130, $140 in average daily rates from June through September. And our operating revenues, you know, followed that -- that trend too. And you can see in September, that we actually exceeded $1 million in operating revenues for that month. [10:15:14 AM] And our recovery, in January and February we were in the red as you can see and then March, April, may we started to get some excess revenues that started flowing after paying off all of the operating obligations for those current months. And then from June through August, September, you know, we started to see some money starting to flow through, and the reason why I'm bringing this up is the implications on the need -- or the amount of the operating loan that we needed to use to pay the past due invoices. As in a few slides following this, we will show that didn't meet the $1.35 million that we had asked for as an initial draw because the performance started improving as of June. And also in this time frame we also got forgiveness for our pp1 loan, $975 -- 100% forgiveness on the loan. [10:16:16 AM] >> Alter: Mr. Thomas, before you go to the next slide can you explain for those watching since it's not on the slide, what the ebitda is? >> It's before taxes -- [indiscernible]. >> Alter: Thank you. Can you repeat that. >> Interest before earnings and taxes and [indiscernible]. >> Alter: Thank you. >> Thank you. Next slide, please. So this is -- this slide shows how the hotel has been performing versus the overall Austin market. And also our competitive set. Our competitive set is a list of portals that have the same characteristics as the airport Hilton. And this competitive set was chosen back in 2017 when we did the bond restructuring. So as you can see, you know, the occupancy rates for the Hilton Austin was 55%. Our average daily rate year-to-date is $126.94, and our [10:17:19 AM] revenue available for room is $69.84. Compared to the overall Austin market, you know, the occupancy rate as you can see was slightly below what the average daily rate is a little bit higher, because the -- when we look at the overall Austin market, and all classes of hotels. So you're talking about, you know, lower rate hotels, two-star, three-star hotels, etc. And the revenue per available room underperformed a little bit. But versus the competitive set, we overperformed. In the occupancy rates it was better at 55%, versus 49.4%. And our average daily rate was $127, and versus our $117, and the rooms per available revenue -- revenue per available room was $69.84, versus $57.62. So in the competitive set we have five hotels in the [10:18:19 AM] competitive set. One is the doubletree at $290. And the Austin southpark hotel, and the radisson hotel. There was also the -- one of the hotels that closed in may that was also part of this competitive set, but that was the -- I believe the crown -- the crown plaza hotel -- no, sorry, the winter hotel closed in may. That used to be part of this competitive set too. But the doubletree, as you can see, during this time period, during covid, it was housing the Texas department of emergency management. And the southpark, the Austin southpark hotel used to be known as the omni hotel and they rebranded it as Austin southpark hotel in August. And the radisson hotel was usually the crowne plaza. Next slide, please. And feel free to stop me if you have any questions as we go through. Next slide, please. [10:19:22 AM] Okay, so regarding the loan. This loan was structured in two ways. One was there was a base lone which was $1.35 million to pay all of the past due invoices. And then a contingency line of credit for $1.25 million that we would draw on in case, you knw, we didn't see economic recovery come sooner and, you know, the hotel was still in the red in the coming months. The city council approved this -- this operating loan on June 3rd, 2021. Next slide, please. And the loan was funded on August 9, 2021, so that is when we received the funds and the approval. We had to go through the able board approval in the meantime, and go through the purchasing department to set up a master [10:20:23 AM] agreement, etc. Once we had the final operating agreements. So the loan was funded as of August 9, 2021 for $1.35 million. Out of that loan amount we used almost -- I mean, $825,000 to pay all of the past due invoices and we had $525,000 from that initial draw still left. Based on what we are seeing in the performance of the hotel, we really don't think that we would need any more of that operating loan to meet any obligations going forward, at least not the operating obligations going forward. So our intent right now is to take those unused loan proceeds and transfer it back to the department of aviation. And, you know, there is always the $1.25 million line of credit that is available to the hotel if it needs to draw through December 2022. So that is right now the plans [10:21:24 AM] with that loan proceeds. And that -- that was the loan that the council approved. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me. If there is not, I would like to hand it over to Tracy to -- to present the comparisons of the Hilton hotel to other near airport hotels that was requested by councilmember tovo. >> Next slide, please. And the one after that as well. Yes, next slide, please. So in addition to comparing the Hilton performance at the airport against other austin-based competitive set airports, we also look at other airport hotels located on airport properties. And the competitive set with the Hilton hotel at the [10:22:25 AM] austin-bergstrom international airport is this list of hotels on the left, including Pittsburgh and St. Louis and new Orleans. And our performance for occupancy available daily rate and revenue per available room, and the average daily rate with revenue per room is in the charts above. And Austin Hilton airport is hotel is reflected in the Orange line. So you can see, and that we are consistent with and outperforming some of our competitive set airports throughout the country. So we continue as not only the department of aviation but also the board of directors for the able corporation, continue to follow these metrics and address any issues to make sure that we are not only providing the best services for the local communities, but making sure and our visitors and guests that come to Austin, but to also make sure that we're performing relative to other airport hotels. Just anecdotally and I believe this is our last slide, but [10:23:28 AM] anecdotally, a lot of the ability of the airport hotel to perforwell is based upon how well your airport performs. The city of Austin airport performs. We get a lot of traffic base upon the performance of the airport. There's a lot of crew contracts for our airlines that operate here and as their fleck increases and their crew numbers increase which also helps to support the hotel. So the best way to support this hotel is to support the airport. And it all works together. And we thank you in the past and in the future for your support of both of these enterprises. And rajeev and Jackie and I are here to answer any questions and any information that you would like about the hotel moving forward. So I think that is th end of our presentation. Thank you. >> Alter: Thank you, if you could take the presentation down, that would be great. Colleagues, do you have any questions? [10:24:30 AM] Councilmember tovo. >> Tovo: This is useful and interesting information and I will have more questions beyond today. But I have a couple of quick ones. I want to talk about what we're seeing on here and when employees started to be hired back, just to make surehat I'm understanding how that -- when and how that happened. >> Yes. I mean -- >> Tovo: When that happened and what its impact was in terms of the revenues and the operating expenses? >> Sure. So, you know, when we look back, the employees really started to, you know, we started to see the occupancy rates increase, you know, from March, April and may. And we had some challenges initially in getting employees back and hiring and we had to go through contract labor to supplement a lot of the housekeeping staff. If you go back to the like the may actual performance -- you know, for that particular month, [10:25:30 AM] compared to how the airport did, we had challenges in getting housekeeping staff and making the rooms available and ready for the next morning. And so this -- this hotel is very dependent on what we call the overnight stay passengers, you know, that take early morning flights. So the turnover in rooms is just like usually just one day. And the average -- the customer stays there just a little over one day. I think that it is like 1.2 days or something, something that was mentioned to me. So we have a need to have a lot more housekeeping staff than other typical hotels where the average stay may be two or three days. So when you have challenges hiring staff, that affects the rooms that we can have ready for bookings. So that affected just the month of may. But, you know, we -- we did a [10:26:32 AM] great job of getting contract labor and hiring out for the month of June going forward. And we also increased the hourly wage to $14 an hour. And, you know, depending on the level of experience that goes higher from $14 an hour for housekeeping staff. But, still, you know, talking to the manager there, we still have challenges, you know, as most businesses are facing in hiring up, you know, they're doing a great job. I know that during that early period, the hotel management was -- mentioned that they were going and cleaning the rooms and, you know, changing the bedsheets and getting the hotel rooms ready. So, you know, they're just -- it's a team effort and they're trying to make as many rooms available. >> Tovo: Thank you. That is really very interesting. And you've highlighted a few elements of -- of what is different about the Hilton than [10:27:32 AM] some other hotels. So thank you for that additional information. Do you have any sense of how many employees returned to their jobs, versus our new hires? Or could you maybe get that information to us? >> We would have to get that. >> Tovo: Okay, thank you. I may have some more questions, but that's what I've got for now. Thank you. >> Alter: Thank you. Colleagues, I did want to just touch base if we want to continue to have these presentations in person during the meeting or if we think that memos might be appropriate. Vice chair pool I think that you requested these briefings in the first place? >> Pool: I think we were looking to catch everybody up and make us much more conversant with activity going on with the various associated entities with the city. So I'm gral to have these opportunities to have staff in person and have them -- have [10:28:37 AM] them periodically throughout the year. I think that it's useful. As opposed to simply a memo. Of course, we get the information also in paper form as part of our back-up. And I appreciate the chair making room for these updates a few times a year. >> Alter: Okay. Well, then we will -- we will continue to invite you to join us. There is not a body more broadly that does oversight over the airport from council. So I would just invite Ms. Yaft if there's something else that you think that this committee ought to be more conversant in or know about, that would be helpfulso the next item that we will take up is the integrity unit report. >> Good morning. [10:30:04 AM] >> Tovo: While we're waiting for our next presentation, I just -- I do have one more question for the airport that I'm going to get to them after. I'm trying to determine how that $14 an hour compares to our wage floor that we have for other regular city of Austin jobs. So -- so just colleagues we may have follow-up on that point. >> Thank you very much, my name is bribe [indiscernible] Chief of investigations of the integrity unit of the off of the city auditor. The integrity unit is made up of four investigators. And if you go to the next slide -- and here's a quick agenda of what I'm going to talk about in this presentation. We're going to go over some allegation trends from fiscal year 21, talk about the investigations that we completed in this fiscal year and briefly touch on what investigations are ongoing. [10:31:04 AM] Next slide. Large scale information here, there were 242 allegations that came into my team over the course of the fiscal year. That is a decrease from the year before and we're on about a two year trend of decreases, but that does line up pretty well with the covid pandemic in a large swath of employees moving to working from home. And that just tends to diminish the amount of red flags that the employees can see that would then lead to allegations reported to our office. We don't actually think it's decreasing, we are just hearing about it a little bit less because of the working environment. Even though we're getting fewer allegations in, it is worth noting that a larger percentage of those allegations actually fit within the fraud, waste and abuse framework that is within our jurisdiction. So my team actually had more allegations within our jurisdiction that we had to take investigative steps for this year than the previous year. So overall fewer allegations but an increase in the ones that are within our jurisdiction. Next slide. [10:32:06 AM] So just some highlights about what we're seeing year over year changes in the allegations that are coming in. Left side we have the most common outside jurisdiction allegations and the biggest hunk of that group is hr related concerns, that represented 30%. Now that was -- it looks like a big increase over fiscal year '20 when they were 19%, but a lot of that driven by covid related concerns espiaially as employees start sitioning back into working conditions, we saw a large uptick we had never seen before, employees concerned about health and safety, how their new work environment is going to be set up, how potential exposure issues are reported and handled and I think that covers a lot of the increase that you are going to see there. The other largest area was department operational issues, that actually decreased but not in a way that you can explain by year over year fluctuation, those operational issues go to various departments to handle. Moving over to the items that are within our [10:33:08 AM] jurisdictional fraud waste and abuse. We did see an uptick -- we had three conflict of interest cases last year. Whenever we have a case that produces a public report, it generates some attention or increased attention to that type of issue. Sometimes we hear about similar issues a little bit more because employees are now more aware of it. Additionally we work with the law department in their annual ethics training and the issues we see get factored into the next year. That can help explain why we are seeing more conflict. Abuse allegations went up a little bit, bus use up a little bit. Again most of this is explained by year to year fluctuation. Next slide. Moving on to how people report to you are on office. It's best practice to let people report anonymously, you're not going to hear about all of the concerns that are out there if they [10:34:10 AM] don't. We really prioritize easy ways to report anonymously, we have an online reporting form that's anonymously, email anonymously, phone line whistleblower hotline where people can report to us anonymously if they choose. 60% of our reporters chose to be anonymous. Up tick from the previous year, just matches what we read about in best practices. People want to be anonymous, if you want to hear about things you have to let them be anonymous. The most common methods were online, 62% used that. Next most common whistleblower hotline at 13. The last one there, 5% of our allegations came from direct contact to the investigators. I think that goes to show that people have had positive experiences with my investigators and they have learned to trust them, they don't actually need to be anonymous, they can call the investigator directly and report a concern that they have. I'm proud 5% of our reporters felt that way and reached out to investigators [10:35:10 AM] direct limit next slide. This slide is mostly just to show you what sort of information we have available to track. I don't think any of these that are turning up or -- trending up or down are necessarily any concerns, just year over year fluctuation. But it is data that we keep in case we do see a trend that becomes concerning. We had three departments where their percentage of the allegations were received, moved up in a reportable fashion or these were the three largest anyway, Austin water, code, city officials, all up moved up to 8% of our investigations which was an increase from the previous fiscal year and then just showing you that we have three that moved down, Austin energy actually went down from 17% in fiscal year '20 to 10% of our allegations. Ctm also dropped and development services dropped. Again, I just think that it's year over year fluctuation, but it is something that we can track to see if anything is actually concerning. All right. Moving to the investigations [10:36:11 AM] that we fully completed this year and either produced a public report or if it didn't have a substantiated violation, just produced a closeout memo that we shared with the relevant department. In the center there are the ones that get the most attention, those are our seven substantiated city code violations, but also four cases that had an unsubstantiated result. Meaning we collected enough evidence to say what was alleged definitively did not happen. We don't like those, but happen from time to time, likely due to the investigators working very hard, being dedicated we were able to substantiate or unsubstantiate 11 of the 12. Next slide. Here's a quick summary of those 7 investigations that turned into public reports. Of note here they span five different departments, Austin energy did pop up three times. I don't think that's particularly concerning. They are one of the largest departments in the city and none of the three cases were related to the others so [10:37:11 AM] they involved three different employees and different jobs doing very different things. N no indication anything systemic going on. The other thing worth noting here is that the departments all took corrective disciplinary action in these cases. They took our results, they thought they were well substantiated and the violations were serious enough in a majority of cases, six out of seven actually resulted in employee separation. Next slide. Moving on to the ongoing investigations my team is still looking at right now. We currently have eight open investigations across seven departments, kind of disbursed across the city. They involve a the although of the similar issue that's we have seen over the last couple of years, gifts, solicitation, fraud, misrepresentation and misuse of city resources. That concludes my presentation, I'm happy to take any questions that you guys might have. >> Alter: Thank you very much. Colleagues, any questions? You do a great job. Appreciate the information on the reports that we get. >> Thank you very much. >> Alter: From your [10:38:11 AM] office. Please thank your staff. >> Will do. >> Chair? >> Alter: I'm sorry, councilmember Kelly had a question. >> I just want to thank the auditor's office for their reports. I'm always amazed at how well they put them together, how easy they are for us as councilmembers but also for the community to understand. So I wanted to thank them for that. >> Thank you. >> Alter: Thank you, appreciate it. >> Tovo: Chair, I also wanted to thank you all for your work. I just think this is a key component to really making sure that we have government that's accountable to the people and it is -- it is really -- build confidence in all of our processes to know that the work that you investigate, these kinds of allegations is being done so carefully and so thoroughly. >> Thank you. Our next item has -- is item no. 5, which is proposed [10:39:15 AM] bylaw changes for our three land use commissions. We have citizens communication and so I am going to call up those who signed up first and then we'll have the presentation from the clerk and we can then ask questions of staff as appropriate. So our first speaker will be Jessica Khn and second speaker will be Jolene kilbassa. You will each have three minutes. Do you need to change the order. >> Hi, I was going to ask if I could speak first and then commissioner Greenberg second and then we had already agreed on, that it was just a matter of what we signed up. >> Alter: Okay. I have four people. I have Jessica Coen, Jolene, Betsy and Todd and if you want to just state your name when you come up, I'm fine if you want to set a particular order. >> Great, thanks, you have [10:40:16 AM] my presentation, I see that. And -- thank you so much. I am -- I am Jolene, the vice chair of the zoning and planning -- zoning and planning commission. Next slide, please. And this -- the appropriate place, city hall, is the symbol of democracy and political discussion. It's also a landmark building. It's easy to find. Permitting and development center is where developers get permits. It is not neutral ground. Next slide, please. City hall is designed for public engagement. This is from the city's own website. Next slide, please. And -- and the moo to council reinforces the idea that the permitting and development center is designed for the benefit of customers. Next slide, please. Safety and security at city [10:41:17 AM] hall. Metal detectors and security outside chambers at all times, secure parking, outdoor lighting, bus stops are the busiest in the in the city and the downtown is full of pedestrians. Next slide, please. And this is -- here's the pdc, no lighting, no sidewalks, no cars, no people and this was taken at about 8:15 at night. Next slide, please. And traveling to city hall until -- is generally against rush hour traffic and for south austinites, it's more difficult for residents and applicants. Once they hit city hall they are going to be traveling with rush hour traffic and we kind of don't even acknowledge the fact that south austinites have to deal with crossing the [10:42:18 AM] river. City hall is definitely at the center of transit. It's a .2-mile walk, which I can attest to today was very pleasant. The eightify frequency bus routes, we have members of the public who do take the bus in addition to commissioners. Next slide, please. At least half a mile walk from the bus stops and only two high frequency bus routes and there's nobody getting on and off the buses. So here's an example D 2 bus ride, no transfer, 40 minutes. And then [indiscernible] Yet going to the pdc will require a transfer that includes a five-minute walk from one bus stop to another, and it will more than double the time. Next slide, please. This is my bus ride, pretty easy, and it's in gone to pdc would require one transfer and that would mean [10:43:20 AM] actually crossing Koenig from one bus stop to another. Next slide, please. Personally safety is at risk. This is adjacent to the pdc. Next next slide, please. And the -- here's the city rationale. The Zucker report does make suggestions on assisting commissions. Including making sure that. [ Buzzer sounding] Legal is available. And now -- they did promote their parking and then I will -- [indiscernible] -- Commissioner Greenberg, thank you. >> Okay. Next slide. So the -- >> Alter: Please state your name. >> Betsy Greenberg, I'm going to finish her presentation. The pdc multi-purpose room was not designed for public hearings or specifically for the land use commissions. There's no dais, there's an awkward layout. [10:44:22 AM] Basically moveable tables and stackable chairs. There's no computers available on the dais. Or there's no dais. For us to look at our case materials. It's been used in the past as a polling place. Next slide, please. The chairs there are not comfortable, they are stacking chairs. Does the city really expect the public staff, applicants and commissioners to sit for hours on these stackable chairs? And we appreciate the memo that was sent last night, I guess, that says, okay, we'll look at getting more comfortable chairs and better signage. But all of these improvements are going to cost money and they can't fix the things like the lighting and the isolation and the distance to the bus stop. I appreciate that they will spend more money to change the things they can change. Like possibly the stackable chairs. Next slide, please. So moving the meetings to [10:45:26 AM] pdc just really sends the wrong message about who should participate and what's important. The land use is probably the most important function of city government. The location that they are wanting us to move to is for the benefit of applicants without consideration of the public or volunteer commissioners, transit dependent individuals will have a much harder time participating, residents south of the river will have a much harder time participating and it really is forcing people to rely on cars. The voters just approved transit improvements and, yet, the city wants to move commissioner meetings to a less transit accessible location. But emphasizes that there's lots of parking available. It just really says that Austin is not serious about equity or fighting climate change using transit. Thank you, next slide. So the land use commission serves the public and, of course, the council. It's a forum for community [10:46:28 AM] input. It's an independent body. We like to remind you that we are unpaid volunteers and what we do is public hearings. The permitting and development center is designed for the development customer. Next slide, please. So finally our recommendation is that you recommend the change of the bylaws for the land use commissions so that the city clerk will schedule land use commissions to meet at city hall. I know you are concerned about changing bylaws, but the city code 25-1-153. [ Buzzer sounding] Sorry allows for these locations to be changed. I do think eventually, ahighland mall develops and transit improves, this site might become a more desirable location. But right now it really makes sense for the sovereign boards to continue to meet at city hall. Thank you very much. [10:47:31 AM] >> You want your computer back? >> Yeah. [Laughter]. >> Good morning, councilmembers, chair of board of adjustments. This morning you received a memo from city staff addressing some of our concerns, I wanted to take a few seconds to briefly address those. Item 2, concern public transportation and way finding. I wanted to share my own experience and the experience of the other commissioners. When we were trying to find the pdc ourselves. I went to the pdc, drove in my car just to go see the -- experience -- see if it was really going to be as much problem as everyone thought it was. I used Google maps which I think is pretty common for most folks, Google or apple maps. I got lost. Took me an extra 10 minutes to find the interests to the parking garage, get in my -- entrance to the parking garage. If you are trying to get signed up to speak for an [10:48:33 AM] agenda item, definitely not conducive to be able to do it easily. The city staff added a link with a way finder map on the pdc website. And it -- it shows exactly the same thing that my Google maps did. I don't see how that's going to affiliate any of these transportation problems. On item 4, the ability of commissioners and public to travel to the pdc and participate in meetings. I have some serious concerns about the location of the building itself. I appreciate that city staff wants to address a lot of our security concerns. But if you are a bus rider, regardless of where you are coming from in the city, there's only one stop that you are going to end up at before you walk to the pdc. As you walk there, to or from a meeting which might end, you know, like last night planning commission, 11:30 at night. You will be walking right next to an adult nightclub. [Indiscernible] We will let [10:49:34 AM] that slide. It's not safe, especially if you are a woman walking alone, which I would be. Item 5 concerns for the timeline. I'm a bit disconcerted by the wording in the memo. Feels like a threat to us. Essentially saying, guys, get with the program, get on board, or we're not going to schedule you for meetings. I feel it's important that we have a lot of public input discussing this move. I would like to hear from our public saying whether or not they agree that this is the right idea. Or whether or not they feel that these important commissioners and boards should stay at city hall, which is our seat of power. Thank you. 7. >> Hello, councilmembers, my name is Todd Shaw, I'm the chair of the planning commission. Many -- much of what I'm going to say has been already said. [10:50:34 AM] But I will put my take on it, I'll give you an update on the activities of the planning commission thus far. First of all, we voted unanimously to change our rules, specifying city hall as a location for our meetings. We updated our 2022 schedule indicating as this being the meeting place. The reason we're here today, there is a -- there was a vote to recommend changes to the bylaws, like the other land commissions here. To locate our meetings here at city hall. The next action we took unanimous vote again was to initiate a code change to specify city hall as the location for the land use committees. And the last change was ignored by staff, but we went ahead, passed a resolution, asking the city clerk to move forward with scheduling our meetings here [10:51:35 AM] in this room for the 2022 calendar, we were fearful if we didn't get it on the calendar by the time the bylaws were heard by a and F and city council we might lose our spots here. That resolution was pretty much ignored, the city clerk refused to schedule our meetings in this location. So why should we stay here? Place matters. This is city hall. It was built as a place for the public to have these kind of conversations. My fellow land commissioners here, we, you know, we spent hours in this being. There have been passionate discussions. You have -- [indiscernible] Time, we have also, we've had protests outside, protests inside. It's a place that the public comes to meet to discuss these items that are important to the city and their individual lives. A permitting center, as -- [10:52:36 AM] is not the place for that public engagement. It really does matter where we meet. And have these discussions. And I would say for that matter, you know, hear us out, we ask for your vote of approval, we ask that also this -- I guess this next step is to go to council. To review this. But, please, what we do is significant and this is the right place. The other thing T I think was a failure on staff is really adequate notification. I talked to so many people. They don't know that we're moving. There has not been the level of public engagement needed to really inform the public and get their input on this move. We're hopeful at planning commission that we will get at least some minimal public involvement when the code change occurs. [ Buzzer sounding] -- So we're doing our part to try to engage the public and get their input on this change. [10:53:36 AM] But thank you and strongly recommend that you keep us here in this building. Thank you. >> Alter: Thank you all for coming down and just wanted to say that all of us up here and everyone on council really appreciates your service. You are all volunteers on some of the most onerous boards. And so we don't always get an opportunity to speak to those who are not our appointees, I want to say thank you and appreciate the opportunity for us to have this conversation today. I wanted to invite up -- I think the clerk's office was going to speak to the bylaw change proposal. >> Good morning. I'm Stephanie hall with the city clerk's office. We are here to present the bylaw changes. We received three bylaw amendment -- proposed bylaw amendments from the boa, planning commission and the zoning and platting commission. The board of adjustment, [10:54:37 AM] they all are editing the same article 7 meetings. The board of adjustment is to include the time, the date and the location of Austin city hall. Both planning and -- commission and zoning and platting commission have the same wording, to edit that same article to read except as otherwise provided by action of the board, the board shall meet the first and third Tuesday of each month at Austin city hall. The intent that -- the business reason we received was the intent of the recommendations are to include the location of the Austin city hall in the bylaws. Staff does not recommend these proposed bylaw amendments. We believe the intent of the amendments can be accomplished by other methods. The specific of the location as well as the specific date and time in the case of the board of adjustment has not historically been included in the bylaws, our concern about the proposed bylaws is the restrictive nature of the inclusions, which may result in problems with future meetings, if for some reason the location or date and time would be not [10:55:37 AM] available. We are also concerned about setting a precedent with such changes. We anticipate if these are accepted, there will be additional boards and commissions also wanting to designate a specific location for their meetings in the bylaws. And we're here for any questions. >> Alter: Thank you. Did the clerk want to speak? No? Okay. So the mayor wasn't able to join us. He shared some questions with me for staff. That I think are pertinent questions for us to -- just to have on the table as we move into this discussion. I'm going to kind of try to ask them very quickly and then -- then we'll open it up, unless other folks want to go first. Anyone want to ask questions first of staff? Go ahead, councilmembers. >> Tovo: Thanks. I was looking over the memo that we received this morning, I'm wondering do we have any cost estimates for any of the things that were [10:56:39 AM] being contemplated that staff talked about? Let me see if I can be more specific. The memo talks about - - I don't know that we have anybody -- here from -- from city manager's office. Councilmember tovo. >> Acm Gonzalez, I apologize, there's so many places to look these days. Thanks very much. So if you don't have these figures now, if I could get them to us, I'm interested to know whether there is an estimate for the cost of the staff member that's described in today's memo. I wasn't aware there was an intent to hire -- trying to think of what their name was, an events coordinator for the building. A full- time event coordinator for the pdc. That wasn't something that I remember knowing before. It doesn't mean that it wasn't in the previous information that we got [10:57:39 AM] about the -- about the pdc. But I -- I don't know much about it. So if we could get information about when -- when that became part of the plan and what the estimated cost is. I see that you are researching the cost for a different -- for different chairs, but certain of these elements it would seem likely result in additional costs. The additional security at the time of the planning and land use meetings, sounds as if -- at least in the memo, sounds as if it was probably outside of the contemplated costs of operations for this facility. And there may be other elements in here. I'm also interested to know, I guess this is a question for our clerk's office, it's my understanding that the procedure for scheduling meetings is going to change and that there will be -- that the amount of staff support, of clerk staff support for commissioners meetings off-site is also [10:58:40 AM] changing. Can you enter he to that? City clerk? >> Sure. And congratulations, I think that's the first time that I've had an opportunity to refer to you as city clerk. >> Oh, thank you. Yes. So -- so -- based on the memorandum that was distributed by the dsd and hpb, back in October, that all land and -- land use commissions would be transferred or transitioning over to the pdc. The clerk's office has defaulted to that administrative plan. So in addition to that, mayor and council approved an ordinance amending the code section to allow boards and commissions for -- to [10:59:40 AM] continue to conduct hybrid meetings. So with that, that takes effect February 28th, so our office -- all of the changes would have to be implemented by March 1st of 2022, meaning that each facility not just the pdc, but other facilities like Austin energy at Mueller are going to be equipped to conduct hybrid meetings and in addition to those two, we've got city hall. So the city -- the city clerk's office will remain the point of contact for city hall. We will then require a contact for the pdc building and a contact for the Austin Mueller building where liaisons, whoever schedule -- whenever -- the decision is made for each board and commission to meet at these specific locations, that staff liaison for that [11:00:41 AM] board and commission will coordinator with the building point of contact, via the clerk's office, pdc or ae Mueller. >> Tovo: Thanks for that clarification. So acm Gonzalez, can you -- I'm not sure if you had answers to any of the questions that I asked earlier about the event coordinator, whether that was always contemplated as a necessary addition to the pdc operations. >> Councilmember, we have Angela mains assistant director for dsd who might be able to speak to that question. [Indiscernible] Certainly will provide that to you. Angela is on the call as well. >> Good morning chair and committee members, my name is Angela mains, the development department assistant director. We were contemplating hiring an event coordinator as a a temporary employee, not a full-time employee. That -- that budget salary is around $23 per hour. [11:01:42 AM] >> Ms. Mains, when you say that you were contemplating it as a temporary measure, when were you contemplating it and was that at the time where the council was asked to make a decision about moving forward with the project? At what point did that become a possibility? >> I would say it became a ssibility when -- when the department moved into the pdc. We moved in, in June of this last year. We opened to the public in July. We shortly after that received a tremendous amount of interest in booking the events center from our public. Currently what we do we utilize a [indiscernible] Business consultant that we have here to assist with that coordination and communication with our customers. But we [indiscernible] At that time that it would be necessary to expand just based on the excitement that we received when we moved [11:02:43 AM] in. >> Tovo: I see, so there is a regular staff member handling those bookings because of the unexpected demand from the public to rent that space. You had moved forward with getting a temporary person, is that person on staff or no? >> We are [indiscernible] For that currently, I believe that position is already posted. So as with everything else, we will continue to monitor the usage of the events center. >> Tovo: So it's posted as a temporary position or posted now as a regular position? >> As a temporary position. >> Tovo: Is it part time or full time? >> At this point we are bringing someone in for 30 hours per week. >> Tovo: And I think you gave me the hourly rate, if I'm no mistaken I think 30 hour a week positions also carry benefits, is that correct? >> That's correct, that's correct. >> Tovo: So if you could follow-up, please, with -- with just some more information about that, both the estimated costs for that [11:03:44 AM] position as well as the revenues to date on that. >> Absolutely. >> Tovo: I would like to better understand what that increased demand looks like and is it high enough to sustain that position. So okay. Thank you. >> Councilmember, you also had questions about building security and [indiscernible] Alexander our building security officer is present at this meeting as well. >> Tovo: Oh, great. >> Good morning. Good morning chair and committee members, my name is [indiscernible] Alexander, the building services officer for the building services department. I think the question was -- that came up about security, that security cost is minimal, ma'am, because what we will do is restructure some hours so that extra security card will be available. We do this when committee members and mayor go to some of these committee -- committee and board commissions, so this is something that we do. [11:04:45 AM] It would be minimum impact as far as cost goes at this point. >> Tovo: I see good. That's good to hear. So you are shifting security personnel from other times during the week to these times? >> For these commissions here at the pdc, ma'am. >> Tovo: So when -- well, I guess I don't want to ask you in a public meeting when they wouldn't be there as a result. So -- but okay. Thanks for the estimate. Or the -- thanks for the information that there wouldn't be necessarily an increased cost. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Alter: Councilmember Kelly or councilmember pool did you want to ask anything? Go ahead, councilmember Kelly? >> Thank you. Could you speak more to what the scheduling conflicts at city hall were that conflict with the present meetings? [11:05:47 AM] >> Councilmember, I'll have to defer to the city clerk's office, they are the ones that book the city council chambers and the board and commissions room. >> Thank you, I would just like more clarity on that is that sure, the problem that we face we can't support all of the board and commission hybrid meetings here at city hall. So once the amendments are -- are in effect, then -- then that is the reason why we are utilizing pdc and other buildings. So if we were to keep these three boards at city hall, we know other commissioners or commissioners will request the same and so we will need direction on who will remain at city hall. And who -- who relocates to other facilities that are also equipped to handle hybrid meetings. >> So just to be clear, are you telling me that there are multiple board and commission meetings that take the same time and place at city hall and that's [11:06:47 AM] where the conflict is? >> That is not the conflict. Now that the ordinance allowing boards and commissions to proceed with hybrid meetings will take effect -- we have over 70 boards and commissions and if they all decide to proceed with hybrid meetings, city hall cannot accommodate all 70. So that would be a conflict. At the moment, since it has not taken effect, we are able to accommodate several -- several here at city hall, but that will -- that's through January and February. So beginning in March, we will -- there will be -- we will have conflicts and we need direction on who takes precedence. If we go that route. >> Okay. Thank you for that clarification. I personally drove through the pdc area at night, I also have concerns related to the lighting, lack of [11:07:47 AM] sidewalks, that sort of thing that was presented to us today. So my hope is that city staff will be able to mitigate or address those things with regards to the bus route I know that the cmo's office is having discussions with capital metro and there will be security on site. It's important for us to remember this is an all volunteer board. The commissioner input and time is valuable. My understanding from the research that I have done is the discussions about this started as far back as 2017, long before my time on council and before many of these commissioners were appointed. I'm not entirely convinced that a move or a change in the bylaws would be the right direction to go regarding a broader discussion, change in location. I am concerned if city hall were to be torn down by tornado or some other naturasaster that was inaccessible, the change in bylaws would be too restrictive. I think there could be a happy compromise here. But the last thing that I want is an unequitable [11:08:48 AM] situation. So -- so assistant city manager Gonzalez, could you maybexexplain the phased approach to this or that situation so we can understand how that might work? >> Absolutely. Staff sent a memo out early this morning. We had wanted to get that out earlier. There's a lot of information as you can see in that memo. First, there are a lot of boards and commissions that have chosen to go ahead and utilize the pdc. As a new facility and because of the availability of numerous rooms, including of course the events city -- center. With regard to phasing what we are contemplating right now is we sent out a memo in October to the boards and commissions chairs of the land use related commissions identifying that the move that we wanted to make. Next year. And that we wanted to meet with the chairs as well as the liaisons to begin [11:09:48 AM] talking about that move. So it's our goal to talk with the liaisons and the chairs about the timing for each of those commission moves. So that way we can get them scheduled as quickly as possible in coordination with the city clerk's office. What we will do is for those commissions that are ready to go and ready to move, we will accommodate them immediately. We understand that these three commissions have concerns and we take those concerns seriously, which is why we have provided the responses that we have. And I hope that we -- in a hope that we do address all of the concerns that have been made. There are some that are going to be longer term in nature as you pointed out, public transportation. That is really beyond our control. That is working with capital metro. Thank you, councilmember Kelly for identifying the sidewalks. We have our project Andy Moore here, he's taking notes to look at that situation and work with our [11:10:48 AM] public works department and work with the developer for that new -- for that new development to identify the sidewalk issues that you've identified as well. But that's really it is we're working with these boards and commissions, collaboratively, to get them scheduled to move over to the pdc as soon as possible. Now, I will defer to Andy Moore to see if he wants to add anything more to that. >> Thank you, assistant city manager general obligation city manager Gonzalez and councilmembers. I'm very familiar with the site and with the progress of the redevelopment efforts that ACC is undertaking. There are other pathways through the development to get to the bus stops and the red line stop. Going right through the middle of the campus is a very safe and with -- with [11:11:50 AM] wide sidewalks and all well lit. It just doesn't necessarily show up one maps. So there are improvements that are happening as the site redevelops that will make it much more pedestrian friendly and safe for visitors to the building. So, you know, it's a -- it's a redevelopment project. It's underway. Going to take some time as we've been discussing. But there are improvements that are there right now that would make it a much more enjoyable and easier access than -- than it appears. >> If you could -- what councilmember Kelly asked about the phasing of the boards and commissions over to the pdc. If there's anything more that you wanted to add other than what I provided. >> Nothing in addition to the phasing. We do have improvements that are going on in the -- in [11:12:52 AM] the events center for atxn to be able to manage all of the meetings remotely. So those will be completed by the end of this month and they will be operational in the new year. >> It seems to me that the commissioners have felt blindsided which is the last thing that I would have wanted to have happened. I wonder if it would be possible to ask for updates involving their concerns and back to this body or committee as they are completed. I also want to thank the commissioners who came to speak here today and the time that they have given in the city for all of the work that they do. Thank you. >> Thank you, councilmember. Duly noted it's our intent to continue to send updates to the mayor and council as well as the boards and commissions regularly, as was identified in the memo this morning. There's some cost components that will be coming back -- we'll be coming back with. [11:13:52 AM] As other issues are presented to us or concerns, we certainly will look into those and provide updates to council and to the board chairs as well. >> Alter: Councilmember pool. >> Pool: Thanks, thanks to the staff and to our commissioners for coming out and talking about this today. I remember when Austin energy, the -- the PUC had to relocate when we lost that building, Rodney, can you remind us how that played out. When the E [indiscernible] Meetings were shifted, that location. >> Unfortunately I'm not too familiar with that topic. We would have to have Jackie sergeant. I would be speaking out of turn completely because I'm not too familiar with that topic. >> Pool: The point, though, is that board because they lost that building, they to move and I imagine they are now meeting at the new Austin energy headquarters up in Mueller? [11:14:53 AM] Is that -- >> That's my understanding, yes. >> Pool: All right. And there is a -- there's a red line stop on airport across the street from I guess the main entrance of highland, I don't know how far that is from -- from -- on foot, maybe Mr. Moore can answer if you know. The distance, if you are on the train. To get from the highland station to the pdc? >> It's a 12 minute walk, approximately. >> Pool: Okay. Downtown, if you were walking from the rail stop at the convention center? >> I would say it's pretty similar, maybe even a little bit further. >> Pool: Okay. [11:15:56 AM] >> Pool: Thanks for that information. Continue to have growing pains in this city in many, many different ways. As I talked to some of the commissioners over the weekend, I talked about the possibility of continuing to work through these issues, potentially alternating the location for the meetings, so people could get a sense of what is involved in travel to the pdc. I find frankly getting downtown pretty difficult coming downtown. And from my many years on boards and commissions, I always had to factor in a significant amount of time to get to city hall for the meetings that I was having there. So I would like to see us all kind of work to find a compromise. I -- I agree with my colleagues about the concerns raised on changing bylaws to cement in a location. I don't think -- I'm not sure if the code -- if our charter says city council has to meet at city hall [11:16:58 AM] potentially it does. But there are instances, like when city hall was being built and moved, that the council was over at the lcra for many, many months, I think a couple of years even, and had meetings over at the lcra on lake Austin boulevard. And so everybody had to accommodate those changes during that timeframe for the -- for the greater good and the larger benefits that we all enjoyed at the end of that. So -- so that's kind of where I'm at -- at this point. I would not recommend audit and finance take any particular action except to moving the issue potentially on to the full dais for council to review and hear from our citizens on the matter. And also our staff. Chair, that would be my suggestion. >> Alter: Thank you. Before I entertain motions, I have a couple of questions myself. So -- so if I'm [11:18:00 AM] understanding correctly, there will still be commissions meeting at city hall, so -- so somebody will stay here, it's a question of which boards move; is that correct? [Multiple voices] Not that we are saying no boards at city hall -- >> Correct, that is correct. There will be boards and commissions that will continue to meet here or will begin to meet here, but we will need direction on who is going to go where. >> Alter: Okay, thank you. Do you have any analysis of the number of participants that are coming by board or commission? >> That data is not captured. The board and commission liaisons only track a member -- member attendance and those speakers who register to speak the day of the meeting. They don't track audience. >> Alter: Would you be able to run anything on the [11:19:01 AM] number of speakers on average per commission? >> That information is maintained by each liaison, so that -- they would have to send that information by email to us, it's not -- it's not kept in the system or any type of application. >> Okay. Seems so me that we could get a rough estimate, you know, my concern is that we -- that we -- all of our commissions are not equal. We have sovereign boards, we have higher levels of participation. That would be something if we had the information on that could factor into a decision about where they should be located and so I think it would be really helpful if you can send a message to the liaisons, doesn't have to be a perfect exact science, but I think a liaison can tell you on average we have X number of folks signing up to speak to [11:20:02 AM] the commissions and I think you're going to see a really wide span with the three land use commissions at the top, well above -- I served on the parks board and I don't remember ever having like more than five people show up at a meeting. And so there's both the -- what happens to the folks who are participating in the commission and what's happening for the folks who are coming to speak to the commission that we would want to factor into an analysis. So I think that would be super helpful information moving forward. I do have a couple of questions that -- that the mayor shared that I wanted to just quickly ask that I think staff are prepared to answer. Does the highland location have limited bus access? >> There are four current [11:21:04 AM] bus routes serving highland mall. If you look at the -- the project connect map of what they are proposing in the future that will be a brt service that will be going to highland mall as well. As we mentioned before, you know, it is an active redevelopment site, there are more apartment units being constructed, actually right now. So as the riders, potential ridership increases, capital metro does change their service to the sites and we are certainly -- we have been in contact with their planning folks to talk about this issue. And previously when we were moving the employees over. So there will be -- it is highly likely that the service to highland mall will increase. As the site redevelops. Certainly with project connect as well. >> Alter: Thank you. I mean, I think it's important that we have to make a decision for this coming year. [11:22:04 AM] I mean there's nothing to stop anybody from revisiting anything as conditions change one way or another. Is there an extended walk from the transit stops to the pdc, is there sufficient lighting? >> There are -- there are lighted pathways that you can get from the bus stops to the pdc, as I was mentioned earlier, through the campus itself. ACC is -- has -- has made -- I encourage everyone to go out and check out the campus. It's really amazing what they are doing out there. They have made some -- some great pedestrian plazas and walkways through the campus itself that you can go well lit with sidewalks from -- from the pdc to airport boulevard and transit stops. Are there extended, I mentioning early are about a [11:23:04 AM] 12 minute walk from the pdc to the airport and the bus stops there in the red line. >> Thank you. >> Alter: So colleagues I think as with many problems that are before us, there's lots of different pieces of information and we have to really focus in on sort of what is the problem that we are trying to solve. I do not believe that a change in the bylaws is an appropriate mechanism to address the challenge that's before us. So I would not support a change to the bylaws -- I am uncomfortable with audit and finance, four of our representatives all north of the city making a decision one way or another that would determine this issue because it does most affect those who are south of the river or -- or potentially east if given the way the connections work to the pdc. I think that there are several different options [11:24:05 AM] that we have, I want to also very much recognize that -- that our staff are trying to solve some particular problems as well. We have for operate under covid conditions. We are trying to open up the virtual option to many boards and commissions who want it. We were overcrowded at city hall even before -- before covid hit and not every commission can meet at city hall. It's just a reality. We do not have -- have at sites at this point in time that are in the downtown central area. Where we can send folks. If we want to accomplish all of the goals we are going to have to think carefully and make, you know, some -- some decisions. So -- so I think it's appropriate for us to have a conversation, I appreciate all of the folks who have brought the concerns to our attention from these boards [11:25:05 AM] who are admittedly often there much longer and later than other boards. If you could also, when you provide that chart with the numbers, also the length of the meetings when they tend to end because I think that I would also want to err on having more access for folks who are having meetings who are going longer as a potential setup. I want to be really clear there's nothing wrong with the pdc event meeting room, it is not the chambers, but not every commission can meet with the chambers or then the city council cannot meet as it is. We keep bumping up to things with all of the commissions where we can't extend our meetings and other things. There are a lot of issues at play. I don't know if one of my colleagues has a particular motion that -- that would allow this to go to the full conversation -- full council without expressing a support for the bylaw change pieces [11:26:06 AM] from a procedural standpoint I cannot support or share. Councilmember tovo. >> Tovo: Yeah. I think having it go to the full council makes sense. It's unclear to me how we reroute the move. I didn't start out in this position, after hearing lots of the concerns and really working through it, I now share them and am supportive of having our land use commissions remain here as we have discussed. I think it helps resolve the space challenges to have many of the boards and commissions moving to different sites, but having -- having the -- having the boards and commissions that I suspect the stats are going to show draw the most number of members of the public remain in city hall makes sense to me. At least in this period of time. That may change over time as -- as people become more accustomed to going to the [11:27:07 AM] develop site, thanks, too, to the staff for working to resolve those concerns that you heard. I think that's really responsive and I appreciate that -- that ongoing work. Thanks to our commissioners for raising these concerns. But to me I do think it makes stones have those commissions -- makes sense to have those commissions with the biggest audiences, longest hours remain here. In part not just because of the commissioners, but also for the members of the public. People are accustomed to coming here over time. Again I think it may be appropriate to ask them to shift to another building, but having the public come to this space for those issues that -- that they are more likely to engage in makes the best sense to me. So owe so he so what is -- what is the default and how -- how -- what is the role of council in intersri Lanka beyond just the bylaws. Do we -- intervening beyond just the bylaws. [11:28:09 AM] Do we need something about the land use commissions will remain at city hall for the next year? Is it enough for us to have a conversation at council and pry that direction to staff -- provide that direction to staff? What is the path forward beyond having just a discussion, what is the path forward to having some level of -- of sentiment expressed that would -- that would clarify this issue one way or another? I think at this point it's been going for for several months, we -- going on for several months, we need to figure out what that decision is of council and in what manner we are going to deliver it. Councilmember pool you had mentioned -- sounded like you were maybe going to make a motion to have that discussion at council. What is your view of -- of the path? >> I think the whole dais should hear from the commissioners and make a joint -- should be direction from the council as a whole, not just from audit and finance with regard to the meeting location. [11:29:09 AM] And I think between now and when we take it up next year, early next year, maybe in February, maybe not the first meeting, that's at the end of January, but in February that the -- that the meetings, I think they are able to continue on, city clerk, do we have the meetings for the land use boards in January and February continuing to be scheduled at city hall? Is that correct? It's in March when the change was anticipated? >> That is correct. One concern that we do have is we would like any type of direction so that the land use commission and staff can prepare their notices. In time. So we need to determine -- we need to know where -- >> What is the timeframe for the notices? >> I'm not positive, but I want to say maybe six weeks, [11:30:10 AM] but I would have to defer to staff. [Multiple voices] >> Alter: In the event it is six weeks, it seems to me in order to have a conversation, 10 weeks? 10 days. >> 10 days [multiple voices] >> Internal processes. >> Tovo: Not -- when we made the decision at council to allow the hybrid meetings we actually put them in a bind because of the notice requirements. I think it is a longer period of time than contemplated for the staff side of the process of identifying the addresses that need to be notified and the community organizations and things. So could I suggest, I don't know whether you want me to make the motion or whether councilmember pool wants to make it. If I could suggest that we schedule this for discussion and action at our next council meeting, which is I think January 27th. If that doesn't afford the staff enough to time to do notifications of where those land use commissions are going to attend, if the staff could put it on our [11:31:11 AM] special called meeting on Monday. Well, that would be really a challenge. It's a lot of conversation. No. I guess it has to be on the 27th and we will have to -- we will have to rejigger things if that's not enough notification time. >> I think we could just plan right now to say that they wouldn't move in March and then that no move would happen before April for the land use commissions. >> I'm sorry, what was that? >> Alter: You had said the plan would have been for them to move in March -- >> Councilmembers, councilmembers, I'm sorry to interrupt. This is Carolyn Webster with the law department. I apologize for interrupting. But we're strained pretty far from the post -- we're straying from the posted agenda item, which is about approval of the bylaws. So I'm concerned that we're straying a little far from the agenda item. I would recommend absolutely if you want to continue this conversation to maybe post it for a future meeting. >> So I will make a motion [11:32:12 AM] then that we pass this issue on to the city council for full discussion and action and to make no recommendation. >> Alter: Okay. Put forward by councilmember pool and seconded by councilmember Kelly. I would add direction to staff to address any timing of the proposed move to accommodate notification requirements as appropriate so that council can make an appropriate decision in January or the first week in February. Councilmember tovo. >> Tovo: Yeah. I would like to amend the motion to be not just the issue that's before us today, which is strictly about bylaws. But the issue more generally about the location of land use commission meetings. So that on that 27th, we're posted to discuss and take action on where the [11:33:14 AM] meetings might take place, not just bylaws changes to effect that change. >> Pool: I see that as friendly, that is really the nub of the issue in front of us. And that is the location for the land use commission meetings. I see that the bylaws piece as an effort to show the emphatic request of the land use commissionst they be able to remain at city hall. I do not -- as I said earlier, I don't support changing the bylaws to make that kind of a formal forever change, but I do see as friendly councilmember tovo's suggestion that we pass along with no recommendation the issue of the location of the meetings for the land use commissions. >> Alter: Can we pass that along with our recommendation not to change the bylaws to address it? I'm concerned our colleagues will go off on a tangent of trying to figure out whether we should change the bylaws [11:34:14 AM] which I think we all agree we don't want to change bylaws. I think it was a way of getting our attention as opposed to something that was intended to be a real request and I don't think that we need to have other folkspspinning their wheels. Ms. Webster is there a way to make that motion? That would be appropriate? >> Yes, I think that's fine because you're talking about discussing something in the future. >> Alter: Okay. So the motion would then be -- what? >> Pool: I see that as friendly, also. >> Alter: Does someone want to state what the motion is that we would be voting on for clarity? >> Pool: I think what it is, we are sending this question to the full council for deliberation and action as to the location for the meetings, the ongoing meetings of the land use commissions and with the recommendation of this body not to change the bylaws to [11:35:16 AM] reflect a permanent meeting location. At city hall. For land use commissions. >> Alter: And with direction to adjustment the schedule -- adjust the schedule if necessary to maintain notifications during the period when we were adjusting what we are doing. Okay. Councilmember tovo. >> Tovo: I would like to request, I just got an email from Martha Salinas with some information that comes from -- from Andrew Rivera and it includes the five year review of public participation for the zoning and platting and planning commissions and shows kind of the average number of public participants for the planning commission was about 65 per meeting, the average duration was four hours. And zoning and platting participation of 38 with average duration of 2.5. And then I think the top five most active neighborhood organizations at planning commission, I'm not sure how that measure -- [11:36:19 AM] what went into that, allendale ... Southeast confined neighborhood contact team. I -- combined neighborhood contact team. I think that was done with this -- I think that's relevant to the question that we are going to -- triple voices] Sorry? >> I think that document is now in the backup as well. That's good information to have? >> Tovo: In the back up for today? I apologize if I missed it. >> If that could carry over then to the backup for the city council meeting that would be helpful. >> Pool: I agree. >> I have a clarification on the question with regard to that information on all of the other boards and commissions. Would you like that -- would you like for us to request information precovid or both precovid and current attendance because that would fluctuate. >> Maybe the last five years? I don't know -- I was saying maybe the last five years. [11:37:21 AM] I don't know how -- so that we could get kind of a sense of the arc. I don't know -- >> I think we are looking for a ballpark. So I think it would be fine to ask them precovid and during covid. I don't necessarily want everyone to have to go back and look at every meeting. I think the liaisons have a sense of the numbers that are generally there that they anticipate and that's really what we want a sense of. Not looking for a major data exercise. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. So. >> Alter: We have a proclamation coming -- let's take a vote. All those in favor? Okay. That's anonymous on the dais with mayor Adler off. Thank you, councilmember pool. Then the last thing that we have is our future items and I want to flag that in January at our meeting we will have the smbr update, an update on E.M.S. Billing [11:38:23 AM] improvements and a follow-up discussion on disaster preparedness. This will build off of the audit. If you are on the committee and you have some particular areas you want to focus on, if you can let my office know so we can make S sure that we have the appropriate staff there for the disaster preparedness conversation that would be great. In February, we will look at the fire E.M.S. Study, the non-building aspects. And we will also likely talk about how the bond process works. Ms. Stokes? Do you have any additions or Mr. Van eenoo for future items. >> Not at this time. >> Alter: With that, I will adjourn this meeting. It is December 15th and it is 11:39, thank you for your patience for staying a little bit later. If you are here for the proclamation, we will get started in just a couple of minutes. Thank you.