Housing and Planning Committee (HPC) Meeting Transcript – 12/3/2024 Title: ATXN-1 (24hr) Channel: 1 - ATXN-1 Recorded On: 12/3/2024 6:00:00AM Original Air Date: 12/3/2024 Transcript Generated by SnapStream ================================== Please note that the following transcript is for reference purposes and does not constitute the official record of actions taken during the meeting. For the official record of actions of the meeting, please refer to the Approved Minutes. [1:59:58 PM] Going to get started right on time. My name is Natasha harper-madison. I am the chair for the housing and planning committee. I also get the distinct honor of representing district one on the Austin city council. The time is 2:00 pm on the dot. We are meeting in city council chambers here in Austin, Texas. The fair capital city, on December 3rd, 2024. We're going to call this meeting of the housing and planning committee to order. How we generally do this is take up speakers first. So we're going to have staff call up speakers with the exception of one who brought us some slides today. So we'll call up that speaker at the time that the item comes up. Staff, do you want to go ahead and call up speakers? I'm sorry ish Esque. >> We're still getting organized. Okay. Sorry. >> No worries. I'll Singh. In the meantime. >> Or not, we have Chris Gannon. >> Good afternoon. Thank you for [2:01:02 PM] >> Good afternoon. Thank you for joining us. >> Good afternoon. Thank you for having me here. On this Tuesday, I'd like to just bring one thing up. And this is on item number three, which is the LCD changes for the crestview Todd height amendment. We through the aia are are encouraging the crestview Todd height amendment to be brought forward as a standalone issue as opposed to a comprehensive as opposed to incorporating it into the comprehensive update. There's projects that are looking for a height increase in this area right now, and if we have to wait the 18 months, it might take for a comprehensive update. Those projects might, you know, not make it, they might disappear or they might get built at a lower density than what could be done. So that is our our one comment. And that's on number three. If we could if [2:02:03 PM] on number three. If we could if we could get the crestview Todd height amendment as a standalone issue. And this is to increase the height to match the Todd. All right. Thank you. >> Guys thank you very much. One quick question. Have you spoken to your council member that represents crestview about that request? >> I have not. This is from the housing committee at the aia. This was a request that was sort of brought forward. I will I'll have to get with David Carroll who's who's working in that area. >> Awesome, I appreciate it. I encourage you guys to do that. >> Okay. We will. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next speaker, please. Did they rob you of a microphone? No. There you go. >> That's all of our speakers. Right now we're confirming on item two. And we will have our speakers for that item very next time. >> I'll keep my eyes peeled. Just give me a signal. Okay. [2:03:03 PM] Just give me a signal. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. And moving forward. So in order by way of our agenda, the flow is going to go like we'll take up our items in a different order than usual. We're going to start with item number one, which is the approval of our minutes from the last meeting. And then we'll take up items five, three, four seven, six, two and eight. In that order, and then finishing with item number nine regarding future items. So now we'll begin with the approval of the minutes from the housing and planning committee meeting on October first of 2024. Is there a motion to approve the meeting minutes. Motion by vice chair. Alter. Seconded by council member Ellis. All in favor? Looks unanimous with the three of us on the dais. I was remiss by not mentioning that I am also joined by vice chair alter and chair member Ellis. With that, the [2:04:03 PM] member Ellis. With that, the meeting minutes are approved. Next up, we have item number five. That's discussion on the 2025 housing and planning committee meeting dates. Colleagues, do we have any questions or suggested changes? I know there was a potential change for one, but it doesn't look like I think it was. Council member zo qadri is here today and if we need to address that later, we have that opportunity to do so. All right. And with no changes, I'm going to ask for a motion for us to again, motion by vice chair alter and seconded by committee member Ellis. All in favor. Does two unanimous votes in a row. Next up, we have item number three, which is discussion on the status and timeline of amendments of the land development code. I believe we'll be hearing from our planning staff at this point. Fancy meeting you here. >> Good afternoon. Good [2:05:04 PM] >> Good afternoon. Good afternoon, chair and members of the housing and planning committee. I'm Steve Greathouse. I'm a division manager in the city of Austin planning department. And the backup for this item, you will find a memo that includes the November 2024 version of the land development code amendments timeline. Gantt chart. Since we last briefed the housing and planning committee in October, several items have moved forward and staff has made a few refinements to the timeline. On October 10th, city council took action to adopt code amendments related to providing a density bonus supporting creative spaces. Several additional code amendments are in process and likely to be on the council agenda in December or January. And apologies. There is a slight typo in the slide that should say December 10th planning commission planning commission does not meet on Sundays. They will be meeting on Tuesday the December the 10th. On October 22nd, planning commission considered and took action on recommendations related to planned development area two and a density bonus for commercial highway industrial Zones. Those items were postponed by council on November 21st, and are [2:06:04 PM] on November 21st, and are currently scheduled to return to council for consideration on December 12th. On November 12th, planning commission considered and took action on recommendations related to site plan light phase two and infill plats, which will both be moving forward to council on December 12th as well. On November 12th, planning commission also took action to postpone consideration of code amendments related to safety bollards and Colorado river protections. These items will return to planning commission on December the 10th. The items are both currently scheduled to be considered by city council on December 12th. But depending on how the planning commission discussion evolves and timing, there is a possibility that that at least one of those items would be postponed at the December 12th meeting. In addition, staff have been working with our consultant team to finalize a comprehensive analysis of density bonus programs and anticipate releasing the study within the next several weeks, as will be detailed by my colleague Alan pawnee under item number six on today's agenda. Looking ahead to 2025, we anticipate another busy [2:07:05 PM] 2025, we anticipate another busy year of code reform activities, development services staff are in the process of developing proposals and scheduling, review and adoption processes for amendments related to short term rentals, as well as an update to the preservation bonus provisions of home phase one, and anticipate bringing those items through the adoption process beginning in February. Planning staff are working with our itod equitable tod consultant team to engage stakeholders and develop a proposal for phase two of the equitable tod overlay that could come through the adoption process by may. Now that council has approved a plan and consultant bench, we will also be working to onboard a consultant team for the potential update to the east Riverside corridor plan, which will kick off in early 2025. We will be revising the timeline shown on the Gantt chart for this work. Once that team is onboarded and we have specific dates attached to that update. Planning staff have also been engaging stakeholders related to an update of the university neighborhood overlay, and anticipate presenting a proposal in the spring. We will be [2:08:08 PM] in the spring. We will be working to finalize the scope for an update of the downtown density bonus program. That would be coordinated with timing and scope of a potential update to the downtown Austin plan, and will also be working to finalize scope and phasing for an update to the north Lamar Justin tod plan, aka crestview, which in that timing was actually just referred to by your speaker ahead of this meeting. So we will still be refining and determining whether that crestview tod Hyde amendment would come forward as a standalone amendment in the new year or as part of the larger crestview update. We have begun to scope and approach to creating new transit oriented, mixed use space Zones and anticipate conducting engagement and analysis activities related to that work in 2025. And we also anticipate using the results of the comprehensive analysis of density bonus programs to guide additional work in the new year. We understand that there may be a desire to expedite recommendations that come out of the study, or to initiate additional work based on the study, and anticipate continuing to refine this timeline to ensure that we are appropriately balancing priorities and [2:09:10 PM] balancing priorities and delivering high priority reforms as efficiently and effectively as possible. As we head into 2024 or 2025. Here. This is the detailed schedule that was attached to the memo in the backup. I won't go through it in detail since I've just kind of provided the highlights, but for more information, including a copy of this detailed schedule, folks can visit speakup. Austin. Org forward slash ldc updates or call the phone number or email on screen. And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions. >> Thank you very much. Any questions colleagues. >> Vice chair alter, I'm curious if you could give an update on the site plan light and infill plat. I know we it has come and gone and come and gone. What? Can you just give me an update? >> So I think that it's been the postponements have happened as a result of waiting for the planning commission action to occur. Planning commission has now taken action and my understanding is that it is ready for moving forward to [2:10:11 PM] ready for moving forward to consideration. Okay. So we will be considering that is my understanding. >> Perfect. That's what I need to know. Thank you. >> I appreciate that we've been following site plan light for quite a while. I had a question on a different item. I see mirrored glass on your Gantt chart. As far as a planning commission pld situation. How does that work with the recent adoption of the resolution that we just had at council that was about kind of the birds and reflective glass issue. Are those the same or are they different? They are absolutely related. >> The mirrored glass item that's on the Gantt chart is an older item that was initiated. Specific to the waterfront overlay regulations. The resolution related to bird friendly design is a broader resolution looking at how to create more bird friendly design citywide. So depending on what comes back as recommendations for a citywide approach to bird friendly design, that could absolutely end up addressing the issues that were raised as part of the mirrored glass [2:11:12 PM] of the mirrored glass resolution. >> Perfect. That's great to hear. And I know there's been a few conversations around things like international dark skies, and we've had some shared use pathways that have the kind of the lower level lighting that only goes three feet above the ground or four feet above the ground. There are different wattage. So I'm curious about that conversation in the future, but I'm glad that you're looking into this and we'll be able to look at that comprehensively in the future. Yes. >> Awesome. Thank you I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for asking that question. That's a good question. All right. So moving forward this is super exciting. Do do do do do do do. We are going to discuss item number seven which is about the northeast planning district. Hopefully this conversation will provide us a broader overview on long range planning and the extraordinary planning efforts by our planning department. I [2:12:12 PM] by our planning department. I see a shiny and I see Christy Moffett from Travis county. Are you guys both coming up at the same time? >> Yes. Thank you. Thanks. For. >> The present. >> So the cadence looks like we'll go to city staff and then possibly jump over to. Yeah. John's the choreographer here. >> Yeah. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Can you. >> I don't know that you're on. >> Boop. Good afternoon. Hello, chair. And committee members. My name is Tanisha Johnson, planner, principal and project lead for the collaborative northeast district plan and the northeast planning district. And I am accompanied here by Christy Moffitt. >> And I am the director for economic development and strategic investments and the planning and budget office. >> This update is to brief you [2:13:14 PM] >> This update is to brief you on our progress thus far for the collaborative northeast district planning process. As a reminder, in March of this year, city council in Travis county commissioners court approved an interlocal agreement for a collaborative northeast district plan. The Ila scope of work outlines the deliverables produced through the planning process over two phases and charges the city county working group. And starting at the end of phase one, the community advisory committee with co- creation of vision plan elements. In this briefing, I will review the northeast district plan working group, which is the city county working group. The summary report some next steps for the upcoming quarter, and an introduction to our project websites. City and county project staff leads began working the week after Ila adoption to develop a [2:14:14 PM] adoption to develop a communication strategy and prepare for meetings of the working group. The first meeting was held on may 8th, and after that meeting a restructuring of the working group size occurred. The second meeting was held on July 10th, and since then meetings are occurring at a cadence of every two weeks. On October 16th, during the working group's eighth meeting, the group charter was completed. After the full formation of the working group, the Ila scope of work stipulates that a work plan must be created to guide the creation of the summary report. At this time, the working group is wrapping up the final edits of the work the work plan, and we anticipate this work plan will be complete sometime this month. Once the work plan is complete, staff will begin activities such as data collection, formatting, and assemblage of the summary report. The summary report, which is briefly described on the screen, will serve two main purposes. To springboard [2:15:15 PM] purposes. To springboard conversations with the community on their needs and gaps, and to assist the county in defining their planning boundary, which may extend beyond the current northeast. Planning district. After further analysis, city staff have onboarded a consultant team to help with tasks related to the city's portion of the Ila. Scope of work. This includes a short term project list and providing support for land use and regulatory recommendations. The consultants will also help with data collection for the summary report, and this work is to begin soon. Looking to the first quarter of 2025, the next steps for the project beyond what I just discussed about the summary report, include the initiation of an interagency technical advisory group to review deliverables created by the working group, the interagency technical advisory group, also known as tag, includes other [2:16:16 PM] known as tag, includes other city departments and agencies such as capmetro, but will not include the county and meets once monthly. We will also work on developing a strategy for the procurement of an engagement consultant to help oversee the administrative functioning of the community advisory committee, and potentially assist with engagement plan implementation. And as well, the county will finalize their boundary with the creation of the summary report. The city and county launched respective or project websites on respective pages. What you see on the slide is a screenshot at the top of the county's collaborative northeast district plan project page on Travis county, Texas. Dot gov and just below the city's project page on speak up Austin. Org. There is one thing [2:17:18 PM] Austin. Org. There is one thing I forgot. So the content on each of the project pages, both city and county, are is co-created. So you will find this information on each page nearly verbatim. >> I appreciate that that was going to be a question for me. >> Yes. And as I mentioned, I'm the city's project lead for this planning effort. And my counterpart at the county is bill Wilson and his boss is Christy Moffitt. Thank you for your time. We'd be happy to answer any questions you may have. >> Thank you very much. I appreciate the presentation. Did you have any additional information to present or just available to answer questions? >> I just wanted to say thank you for the city for inviting me here, to be here today to support this work, and to show that the county and the city are working together on this extraordinary effort. And then we'll be providing our quarterly presentation to the commissioners court on December 17th. [2:18:19 PM] 17th. >> And the same as the website. Would you say that, generally speaking, the content will be similar, and will we be present for that presentation as well? >> In case we've not discussed yet, but we will certainly have that conversation. I assume that once we know more around the timing, then we'll talk about who from the city can be present so that we continue to show that we are working in lockstep together. >> Fantastic. I really appreciate it. Not to toot my own horn, but to toot my own horn. I'm really excited to be able to say that a part of my legacy and the time spent here at the city of Austin was, you know, being a part of this process with this collaborative effort between the city and the county to, you know, really do this large scale consideration of such a huge swath of our fair city. And I'm really looking forward to hearing about the expansion of y'all's boundaries, just recognizing there's so much potential there. Colleagues, do you have any questions? Vice chair Walter, I was going to toot your horn a little bit [2:19:22 PM] toot your horn a little bit myself. >> Just, you know, I've been able to witness up close the work that you and your office has put into this, and I am really interested to see where it goes. I think it's a really exciting opportunity for the city and hopefully can be a model for how we plan other areas that are also going to be growing, so just want to give you a little toot. >> I really appreciate that. Thank you very much. >> And no questions from me, but just appreciate that these conversations take a lot of people to make them work. As someone who also represents a district that has a lot of overlapping neighborhoods with the county and trying to understand how people work within and with, you know, inside the city limits, outside the city limits, and knowing the gaps that exist on the east side already, it's fantastic that groups are trying to get their heads together and really say, we want to hear from the community, we want to see what it is we can do with this, with this process and with this input. And so I think good [2:20:22 PM] input. And so I think good things are going to come of it and just really appreciate that this this focus has already taken place and that our elected leaders in northeast Austin are trying to make big things happen and that you're here to make it work. Thank you. >> Thank you indeed. >> Thank you. Thank you both for your presentation. Appreciate you. All right folks. So with that we're going to move on to item number six, which is discussion around the comprehensive density bonus. Touched on it briefly with miss Greathouse. And I expand. Hi there. Please introduce yourself. Hi. >> My name is principal with the planning department, and I am here to provide an update on the comprehensive analysis of density bonuses. So background that you all are aware of. But last year in June, city council approved a recommendation from HPC regarding prioritizing initiated amendments to the ldc. Later that June, HPC approved the staff briefing to address [2:21:25 PM] the staff briefing to address density bonuses through a more comprehensive analysis, which is what we've been working on. So I will be providing just a quick overview of what the study will entail and what the next steps will be once it's released. So the study will include a program compare and contrast between our density bonus programs. It will have some information on density bonus economics to help kind of educate and inform a lot of the information that is in there. It will have some program performance analysis on how our density bonuses are currently performing. We includes all the stakeholder feedback we received as well as peer city case studies. And then finally, the most important section will be the recommendations that are coming out of the study. So as I mentioned, there will be a section for program comparison which will include geography of where the different density bonus programs perform, the different intents and purposes of each density bonus, the incentives they all have, as well as how affordable housing [2:22:26 PM] well as how affordable housing works in each one of those as it relates to income levels, mfi rents, percentages, required fees, and lugo and whatnot, as well as other community benefits that some of them have. As I mentioned, there will be a section on density bonus economics, which will include mathematical example of trade offs between cost of construction, market rate and affordable units. Yields on costs, how those affect density, bonus programs, the comparison of in lieu fees versus the cost of having on site units, as well as how these can vary by time, place, height and density. The program analysis and stakeholder feedback sections will include information about how our programs are currently being utilized so you know information such as rate of participation, how many units or in the case of uno, for example, bedrooms have been produced, fees and Luz that have been collected for each one of those. And then inferences. Based on this analysis, the stakeholder feedback will include how we conducted the [2:23:27 PM] include how we conducted the outreach process, the general feedback we received about the programs in general, or the process of going through a density bonus, as well as specific feedback for individual programs. Pure city case study will include information about which cities were reviewed. General trends we are seeing not only nationwide, but in Texas, as well as best practices that we are finding and potential recommendations from these case studies. Lastly, the recommendations section will have broad recommendations that are all based on stakeholder feedback. The analysis and the case studies. These are recommendations about generally how our programs can be more in line processes that the city can take on to help improve for internal use and external use, as well as obviously individual program recommendations based on those same feedback of stakeholders analysis and case studies that will actually be specific updates or recommendations for updates on the individual programs. So our [2:24:28 PM] the individual programs. So our timeline and next steps is I'm here providing the update. The study itself will be released by the end of the year. We are hoping to have our consultant come to what is sounding like the February 4th meeting. Based on your schedule to present on the study and have a discussion about it, and then on going from there, we will have recalibration, creation of new programs as needed. I do want to bring up the fact that we already have some of these in process. So obviously our study will be incorporated into the programs we already have in our schedule based on the Gantt chart that was updated today. So, for example, east Riverside corridor is scheduled for April, the university neighborhood overlay, which is in may, and then crestview downtown and north burnet gateway as well. Any recommendations we are getting out of the study and any other general recommendations [2:25:29 PM] other general recommendations will be tried to be incorporated into these, as well as recalibration for these. Here is my contact information. If you all have any questions. And yeah that is all. >> Thank you very much. Any questions colleagues I have a high level and hopefully brief question. >> I know we're talking about density bonuses at this point. Are there any other conditions like overlays that will be presented with this? There's a lot of different areas like the university neighborhood overlay where there's kind of a base height, an overlay and a density bonus. And so can you talk us through those different levels of obviously, base zoning is its own conversation. >> But yeah, so the study was only related to the density bonus of those overlays as we work on updates it will be a comprehensive. So for example, the university neighborhood overlay will be an update that relates not only to the density bonus component of that, but the overlay itself. Similar with downtown and any other programs [2:26:30 PM] downtown and any other programs that have kind of, like you said, multiple layers. The study, however, is more on the performance and analytics and how to improve the actual density. Bonus components of those. Okay. >> Sounds good. Thank you. >> Yes, please. >> Just curious on on slide five where you talk about the economics, one of the things that I have always hoped we'd be able to do, and I know it's very complicated and maybe it's not practical, but we create these density bonuses based on some set of assumptions, whether it is, as you mentioned here, cost of construction and you know what the potential prevailing rate is of that unit. But as we have seen over the past two, three years, right, you can have huge swings that happen really fast. And a density bonus program that made sense three years ago today makes zero [2:27:31 PM] years ago today makes zero sense. And do we want to consider having some kind of flexibility in there so that at a later date, you know, if let's say it's 10% when things are really burning and really good, but 5% when conditions are really tough, you know, 5% of something is always more than 10% of zero. And so I know there are so many nuances and challenges in doing that. But as you are going through this process, if you see an opportunity to do something like that, I think it would be incredibly beneficial for these programs. >> Yeah. Understood. >> I appreciate that. Vice chair alter, can I ask you a question if that were to be a possibility when could we expect to hear back from you all about making that potential adjustment? >> It would have to be on a kind of density bonus program by density bonus program, because [2:28:32 PM] density bonus program, because we would have to individually update them, or if we did a revamp or a new program, but it would have to be basically updating each density bonus program as we did it. If there was a way to do that where, you know, downtown, for example, if we said in these conditions it does this and that, it would have to be as part of an update to that, we couldn't do it globally very easily. I guess I would say I see, but I understand your point, though. >> You know, I was reading a headline the other day about how nationally, there's been a trend to slowing development, in which case, to your point, 10% of nothing is still 10% of nothing. And so being able to have some flexibility to take into consideration those kinds of fluctuations with the market would be helpful. I do understand, though, that a universal approach may not be practical, and I don't potentially wildly impractical, but if the density bonus is a formula based on something that changes, right? >> So like if it's the what's the word I'm looking for, not [2:29:36 PM] the word I'm looking for, not the interest rate, but well, cpi but are you know, the fed funds rate that Wall Street journal and urban posts are that factors directly into. Then the cost of borrowing and the cost of construction and everything. So you know, if it's some if that's multiplied in so that it updates itself where we don't have to update it, I think that would be innovative. >> Yeah. I mean, that's something we can look at during recalibration of the density bonus program. >> Fed funds rate. That's the word I was looking for. >> Found it. Thank you. One more question. >> One last question. And I appreciate that because I like the flexibility of some of these. If we are going to be hinging them upon things like cost of living or other sorts of consumer price indexing, I know at least the downtown bonus if I'm correct, has some other opportunities for things like green rooftop gardens or other community benefits. Are those going to be factored in as well? These seem to be focused more on affordable housing costs. Can [2:30:37 PM] affordable housing costs. Can you talk me through affordable housing as a community benefit versus other things like environmental improvements? >> So the study did include some analysis and stakeholder feedback on the different community benefits, which ones are being used, which ones are not being used, you know, participation rates, how to calibrate and so I think again, once we do individual recalibrations of the density bonuses as we're updating them, that will be the time when we can look at either adding or, you know, updating or including or having a form to recalibrate different community benefits like downtown has that. That's more than just affordable housing. >> I appreciate that, I know this dais cares a lot about affordable housing and market rate housing that can become more affordable over time, but also understanding our heat island situations and different rainwater recapture and green stormwater stuff that that we've been talking about over the years. It'd be great to know how we calibrate that, how we let people who are building these projects pick and choose what [2:31:37 PM] projects pick and choose what works for them. We want the affordable housing, but we also want some of the other good community benefits to come from it too. Thank you. >> Thank you. And a growing city. We need everything all at once. All of it. Thank you I appreciate that. So if you all will bear with me, what I did was I skipped over item number four and went directly into item number seven. Now that could be for a number of reasons, and I'll let you take your pick either. I was trying to let Christy Moffatt get back over to the county, or I was taking an opportunity to talk about the northeast planning district twice, or I inadvertently skipped over item number seven. It's a it's multiple choice. So we're going to go back to item number seven, which is about long. I'm sorry, which is about long range planning. The previous item should have been number four which was an update on northeast planning district. I saw a confused look. >> We're good. I was just making sure we had the right [2:32:38 PM] sure we had the right presentation. Okay. Good afternoon, chair and committee members. I'm Eric leak, development officer for the planning department. Today I'll be providing an update on the planning department's planning initiatives. >> So this chart shows the planning department's long range planning initiatives that are scheduled through 2026. It includes activities ranging from the imagined Austin comprehensive plan update to a downtown historic resources survey, to a great streets plan and standards update, among other things. You'll notice that some of these have a phase designated in yellow. These projects are in the scoping and cost estimating phase, and I'll go into that in a bit more detail on the next slide. So regarding the imagined Austin update, we're we're currently collaborating with council to develop a scope for the update and will be bringing that [2:33:40 PM] and will be bringing that bringing forward a resolution for council consideration in early 2025 for the 700,702 initiative, the downtown Austin plan update and other district plans, potentially including Dell valley. We're working to develop those scopes of work regarding the transfer of development rights analysis for historic properties were. That is something that was a recommended implementation item from the equity based preservation plan. And we're working to better define what that work should include. In terms of the timeline for the initiatives and the scoping and cost estimating phase, we're providing this update about the potential planning projects today. At this committee meeting will then be developing the scopes of work for these projects by early 2025, and will then request cost estimates for them, which should be complete by March. At that time, we'll provide an update to council [2:34:42 PM] provide an update to council about the cost estimate, about the cost estimates that will make it possible to confirm initiative, funding and potential timelines. In April. And I'm happy to answer any questions that you have. >> Thank you very much. Any questions, colleagues, one high level question, as we look at imagine Austin, how will the information around what has already been developed or proposed to be developed within some of the community centers in imagine Austin? >> How will you factor in what what is already built versus going to be built, potentially, and what opportunities are left to reach the goals that were initially set out in 2012. >> So that type of analysis would would be something that would be looked at as part of the update, you know, certainly considering the growth concept maps. Et cetera. I think have to take those types of things into consideration. [2:35:44 PM] consideration. >> Okay. That's helpful. I know I live in one that overlaps one of the environmentally sensitive areas. That's in one of those growth concept areas. I know we've already done another rezoning nearby in vice chair alters district that incorporates some of those issues, but because they were drawn as circles, there's a lot of people near those areas that don't quite know what that means and what is left for them to be able to get those environmental benefits out of those areas that were identified. So I would love to know more about it. But I realize we're early in the process and would love to know more as those conversations continue. Sounds great. >> Same in terms of the question being high level. Just curious is speak up Austin, the most comprehensive location for our constituents to go. To find out more information for each of the initiatives being proposed to discuss moving forward, I think sometimes, you know, my office has made a concerted effort, most especially to encourage the general public to be involved in [2:36:44 PM] general public to be involved in these discussions. But I think it feels very much like subject matter expert exclusive. And I really like more folks, you know, lay people from the community to be involved in the discussions in which case having that opportunity to on the front end really front load their knowledge base. Excuse me about some of the subjects we're discussing is very helpful. >> Absolutely. And yes, as projects launch, probably all of them will have speak up pages. I'm trying to think if there are any exceptions, but in general, we do try to use that as a tool because it has lots of opportunities within it to share documents easily, to create surveys, you know, to be able to translate it fairly easily. So, so they, they wouldn't all have speak up pages yet because they may not be in the active phases. And we generally don't launch the speak up pages until we're getting close to being at a [2:37:46 PM] getting close to being at a stage to engage the public. But that is the intention. >> Yes, that's good to know. I appreciate that. Thank you. And this is neither here nor there for you, but I was actually talking to a friend about community engagement and keeping folks informed. And she was talking about how there are strategically placed qr codes around the city for community members to be able to scan the qr code, which takes them directly to issue areas. And I just I hope that moving forward, as we think about, you know, sort of smart city innovation, that's one of the ways that we engage with the general public. Thank you very much. We appreciate your time. Yes, ma'am. >> One last one. I know there's been a lot of itod work done around the two of the three. Metro rapids with project connect is there a plan to put oak hill area into this? A lot of those concrete parking lots are looking at redeveloping and how to be more environmentally friendly. And we would love for [2:38:48 PM] friendly. And we would love for multimodal transportation to be part of this. Can you tell me when that's going to be added to the list to make sure that we can have these conversations? >> So the tod plan and I might bring Stevie up if we want to get into more detail. But in general, the tod planning is kind of its own line in, in the chart in that, you know, we have quite a bit of tod planning planned. I don't offhand know the sequence of all of that. I think we're trying. We're still trying to determine that. >> Okay. I think we're still trying to make sure that those conversations are happening. There's been 3 or 4 rezonings or restrictive covenant amendments in that area already. So those those properties are going to redevelop. And I want to make sure they redevelop in a smart way, and that the city is at the table trying to make sure that that we are looking at our multimodal goals. I want [2:39:49 PM] multimodal goals. I want district eight to be participating as much as any other district in town, but I don't think there's been comprehensive planning happening yet. And so people are doing it on their own in a silo. And I want to make sure folks know what it is the community wants, that we have a chance to provide our input and to talk about walkable, first floor affordable housing. Where do we want that to be in the district, to make sure that we're not missing the boat, because they will redevelop. They just won't redevelop in a way that actually helps us reach our environmental goals. >> Interesting. >> I really appreciate those considerations. Somebody brought to my attention recently during the course of the conversation, one of the subject matter experts talked about the retail stack. And if you're not familiar with like you know how to make all the numbers make sense for vertical mixed use project, recognizing the relevance of the retail stack and how this business complements this one, and so on and so forth. I think sometimes we just forget that not everybody speaks urban planning. And so I really appreciate all [2:40:49 PM] And so I really appreciate all those considerations and opportunities for everybody to contribute substantively to the dialog. So thank you. We really appreciate your time. >> Absolutely. >> All right. So one of our final items today we're going to have several speakers joining us. In addition to the information we get from staff we're going to move on to item number two. I requested this topic to be on our agenda today, so we can really start a conversation around building design that supports, to your point, council member Ellis, our sustainability goals, including green rooftops and solar panels. I sort of always find myself driving over that 183 flyover where you can see the top of all these big box stores and buildings that are just concrete and imagining a world where, you know, the concept of what could be. I'd like to take this time to allow myself and my colleagues to really hear from local experts and check in with city staff just to see where where we are and incentivizing [2:41:50 PM] where we are and incentivizing and encouraging sustainable building practices. But before we do that, and my hope is that we really get an opportunity to kind of dig into some of the questions about how practical these ask are and what the future looks like to make it more practical, which actually leads me to be excited about future conversations about alternative building materials and other things that I think the city of Austin and so many ways has been, you know, at the forefront of innovation nationwide. I just look forward to us taking that opportunity to do so again. So first is Mr. Pliny Fisk, one of the co-directors from the center for building maximum potential building systems. He has a brief presentation for us on the topic this afternoon. Good afternoon. Mr. Fisk. >> Thank you for inviting me here. >> Thank you for joining us. >> Great topic. I agree. So we've been around for a while. We're now the oldest in the us [2:42:51 PM] We're now the oldest in the us doing sustainable architecture and planning. We were on the think tank to create Leed. We did this building. We did the library down the street. Many things as you all know about, including many, many schools. So one of the things that's important is that you all should come and visit. We're in that sector called one. Have you been there? I knew it, so other people should also come because the state green building is there and two solar decathlon are there, which are off the grid, affordable buildings. So our limit for the first one was $250,000 total, including all energy systems, water systems, everything. And the second was more expensive. But that one began to get into issues of international competition, where our competitors were spending [2:43:52 PM] our competitors were spending 3.4 million on a prototype and we were doing 650,000. Anyway, the slides that I have, green roofs is a huge topic. As you might imagine, green building programs are a huge topic. So if I were to say you know, what are we doing with this? Well, that was interesting. What do I press here? >> Should be the right arrow. >> So this is who I am basically, and who we are to give you a few credentials. And I'm at professor emeritus at that place called Texas A&M. The problem is a quite an interesting one, because the next slides are going to show Austin as being part of a global issue of climate change. And as a friend said, you'll soon realize that we are lucky and luck is not a plan, as her book [2:44:55 PM] luck is not a plan, as her book says. So what it does is it basically goes over the fact that we are about to be inundated with many different climate change issues. So roofs in general can, you know, relate to temperature, citywide temperatures 20 to 30 degrees cooler. If cities had 80% green roofs, according to EPA. We grew roofs like building programs, you know, water harvesting we've done. And some people call that a green roof wind resistance, which is major. Our particular nonprofit on fm 969 and decker lane has had at least two tornadoes, two roofs have disappeared across the street in Austin. And so, you know, you sort of wonder, is there such a thing as a tornado alley and a tornado competent city? And we [2:45:56 PM] tornado competent city? And we have looked at that extensively in some ways in the past. Energy is a big issue and some people call the energy issue related to green roofs the green roof of the future. And one of the things that we did for a competition for icon, for an affordable housing community related to Agro hoods, is that we actually used a quonset roof in order to create energy with flexible pvs and to also reradiate to the night sky, which enabled us to bring a possibility to affordable housing with a quonset type roof that is proven time and time again to handle the extreme variation in climate conditions that were handed in this part of the country. And then I'm going to say a little bit about the opposite end, the bottom of the building called roof of called foundations versus the roof. So foundations actually are per [2:46:58 PM] foundations actually are per million dollars worth of activity. The highest greenhouse gas supplier into the atmosphere of all materials related to single family housing. And we rarely do very much about it. So we look at the big picture and we realize that the big picture also says something about a learning system can we learn from these other places that have similar conditions? And we've learned a lot, but I can't possibly go over that. In this presentation. We are very susceptible to wildfires, even though that data there doesn't show us in wild flower fire conditions, flash flood. We know about tornado, we know about crop disruption. All these things come together and seem to want to place themselves in Texas. So we did this great thing of calling all these overlaid and see what overlays would actually happen if we [2:48:00 PM] would actually happen if we said, let's go and look at Texas. So here we are in some of the darkest areas in Texas, which means that many of these disasters could happen here. And so roofs are the first thing that connect to this issue. So our building at the time related to water. So we increased the surface area of our roof because Austin energy said that a lot of the energy that they use is for processing and pumping water and distributing it, as well as wastewater. So this building as the state demonstration building in Austin, emphasized two things water and wastewater related to that data. So this building has many, many things in it. It has 14 different materials, eight different walls, zero Portland cement that is now coming around again 20 years later to actually [2:49:04 PM] again 20 years later to actually be a possibility because there was a gap period where we couldn't use old materials that we were using previously. Now we can, according to work done at mit. The other thing about green building that is very critical is where is your money going? So we might do affordable housing, we might do all kinds of things. And I'm about to show is that a housing as we showed in the state demonstration building, actually trackable to businesses within our region and to those businesses being emphasized because of their good work in any number of different ways. And how do they come together to actually produce a building that is relevant for the future? I'm going to show some projects not built because we couldn't get funding. This is a project called aviary and it was all based on quonset type buildings and it had green roofs and other roofs, but it also had a protected area on a sidewalk that is sort of a microgrid that shades people, but also protects [2:50:06 PM] shades people, but also protects utilities as well as people in supplying what's going on in that small community. So you can see the microgrid winding through this community and how these buildings actually using an existing building system in a variety of different ways, can actually end up to be a fairly attractive possibility. So these buildings were specifically done in order to not have overhangs, to not have the things that actually create havoc related to or tornado situation. And that ribbon through it actually is the utility system. So that we did not have to put these things on roofs. And that was important because we wanted the roof to become flexible, to do many different options. So these were some of the options that the roof was doing. But these were some of the configurations that usually thought of as a [2:51:07 PM] usually thought of as a geometric shape that doesn't have too many options. This is the agrihood that we are proposing at our place at decker lane in 1969, and it has the same kind of roof, and I don't want to keep overemphasizing the fact that this roof historically has unbelievable precedents in lasting. And that's why many farms have this kind of thing. But the fact is that it can be done in an attractive way. But the combination here is very interesting because this was an icon, 3D printed competition for affordable housing. And what we did is that we had our gantry to do all the housing spanning the entire thing, from one microgrid spine to the next, and powered the entire thing with solar to manufacture the buildings in situ. The roofs themselves are striped. In fact, it became a [2:52:09 PM] striped. In fact, it became a little bit of a joke. People said said that this is a zebra roof, but the zebra roof is zero energy building roof. And what it does is that every other stripe that you see there reradiates to the night sky using three M's new film that brings the temperature 20 to 30 degrees below ambient. Next to that is a flexible pv between the flexible pv being black and the efficiency of that blackness ending up part electricity, but also part heat. We began to realize as we modeled this, this is zero energy, affordable housing and a lot of the concrete that I am not, in this case, a big fan of because they're not using quite the right concrete yet, is a heat sink. So as we go and model this with UT, we began to realize this is only requiring a fan to run any one of these buildings, [2:53:11 PM] run any one of these buildings, the buildings themselves, by the way, internally, were made to be very flexible because different families need different things. So you could start off with no two stories within and you could build those two stories over time with a kit that we were supplying within the system. The most important thing in all of this is that all the gadgetry and all the technology is great, but is it a livable environment? So the first thing that people look at, do I want to live there? So we were very conscious of trying to make these buildings look and feel warm and attractive to people that were apparently trying to get an affordable housing way of operating. Last item. The other end of this is the foundation. So one of the many things that we've done over the years, besides doing all the green Specking for the largest building in our country called the us Pentagon, we began to find certain things. And as we investigated more and more with [2:54:14 PM] investigated more and more with the 12.5 million businesses within our database, we were actually able to take a building typology one of 18, in this case, single family homes, and drill down hierarchically all the way to the fact that of all the issues related to materiality and green buildings and so on. And greenhouse gases was how you do the foundation. So I'm not going to get into foundations today, but I will welcome you all to come and visit us to see what we're doing in this area. And that's the last slide. Thank you. Oh, well, if you want to see some of that in more detail, one can read all that stuff. >> Thank you I appreciate it. And it's safe to assume that all this information has been provided for us. And backup, but I would encourage sharing with the with the broader council and the mayor. I fully intended for this conversation to just be the [2:55:14 PM] this conversation to just be the start of many conversations and really us digging down deep. I hadn't heard that statistic about the foundation being the larger producer of greenhouse gas emissions, and I also hadn't heard. Or maybe it just didn't register for me, that 80 put emphasis on the generation of and distribution of water being such a large energy expenditure, and so I really appreciate the opportunity to hear from you today, and for us to really just get the conversation started in a comprehensive, substantive, substantive way. Great colleagues. Any questions? >> Vice chair alter rally a comment. And we have had the opportunity to work with Zach and the sustainability office to do this from a city perspective. If we're going to try to have private developers do more with their roofs, we should lead the way, right? And so, Zach is has been working on how we can get [2:56:17 PM] been working on how we can get more solar panels on our city facilities. When we were going through the study of city energy usage, which we are the number two energy user in the city of Austin, behind Samsung as an entity. But Austin water is almost 50% of that because of the pumping and the moving. And so it's a huge piece of the pie when it comes to water. But I'm really excited to see where that goes. I think at a bare minimum, it just it can save our general fund over time. If we are able to put the solar on these roofs. But we can also demonstrate to the public that, hey, this is really possible and we can do this and we're going to lead the way. So I see Zach out there appreciate it very much, but I appreciate your presentation. It's really interesting. >> I'd like to pick up a little bit on what you're saying about water and wastewater, though, because I just visited the only facility, apparently in the U.S. That has piggybacked onto their wastewater system with a German [2:57:17 PM] wastewater system with a German system that is ancient, that has been forgotten until six years ago, called hydrothermal carbonization. And this takes the wastewater and the organics and converts it to hydrocarbon instead of biochar, which no one's ever heard of. Everybody is a biochar, but never hydrocarbon. But the most important thing is that all the pfas, all the heavy metals and everything is captured in a way that does not enable it to get to get into the environment, because it uses the silica to actually trap chemically all those bad things. So they are no longer available. But anyway, if anyone ever wants to see that presentation they city just sent it to me to share with you folks. >> Awesome! >> I'd love to see that presentation if you wouldn't mind sharing with our offices. >> Thank you! >> Also sounds like a perfect opportunity for a study trip [2:58:17 PM] opportunity for a study trip abroad, so just putting it out there. Any questions? >> No questions, but I really appreciate this presentation. We've talked a lot about how we can be more environmentally friendly and how we can continue to be leaders in this space. And I know there's a lot of people that are building structures right now in this city that even if it's not required, like the state says, we may not make certain requirements of these structures. There's a lot of people that just want to do it because they care about our future. They care about the environment. They want to make sure we're sustainable for solar energy and water usage, and anything we can do to help support conservation and help people get off the grid, I think is fantastic. I was lucky to get off the grid last week, and so I'm really mindful of that was lovely. And it and it is doable and it's quite pleasant to be able to do that in certain regards. And there's a lot of people that just want to do the right thing because it's the [2:59:19 PM] right thing because it's the right thing. And I really appreciate all this information. And anything you can send to us, I'm sure we'll come back with a whole bunch of questions that you'll be able to answer for us. >> Great. And I might say that I'm sorry we have two solar decathlons that were done by students. And to get young people totally connected to this as possible and then compete on a national basis on the mall, was really a phenomenal episode. So come visit us, I'm intrigued. >> You'll hear more from me. >> Great. Thank you very much. We really appreciate your presentation and thank you guys for the questions. I also look forward to continuing the conversation, I think. Next up we have more speakers on the item. So next up we have Mr. Gannon again with the Austin chapter of the American institute of architects to speak on the topic. >> Yes. Thank you, thank you. Good afternoon, chair and committee members and pliny Fisk, who is I'm I'm honored to [3:00:20 PM] Fisk, who is I'm I'm honored to be here and I'm honored to go after pliny, who is an absolute visionary, sustainable architect. I actually did one of the solar decathlon buildings that's on his land, the or. I participated snap house from 2009. Okay. So I want to thank the committee for bringing this item up. Resiliency and sustainable practices in architecture is extremely important, right now and is going to get more and more and more important as we go. Unfortunately, I don't have too much prepared in terms of proposals or presentation, but the aia Austin chapter has recently reshuffled its advocacy organization, and we've created a new committee and it's the committee for resiliency. And this is going to be an advocacy chapter, just or an advocacy [3:01:21 PM] chapter, just or an advocacy committee, just like the housing committee committee with a chair and a work group. And we would love to engage and participate with you in these things. We have a very robust membership and sustainability resiliency. And these practices in the built environment is extremely close. I, I reached out quickly, and I think some of the things that we're looking at is, like pliny was saying, how do we touch the ground lighter with our buildings? And some of the things that we're looking at are pin footings similar to a diamond footing, which is a way that you can site a building closer to a tree without disturbing its root zone, because it all comes back to trees. Really, how do we preserve trees? How do we encourage the growth of trees? And how do we not? How can we build density, not at the [3:02:23 PM] build density, not at the expense of our existing trees and canopy. So, so pin footings and micro pilings for foundations near trees in general, how does our how can our construction be a lighter touch and how do we integrate greenery such as trellises and green roofs into our our buildings more and in a more public way? I got a whole list of things just by reaching out, and I would really encourage bring in the aia resiliency committee for further conversations. We would love to be part of it. And thank you guys for bringing this up. >> Thank you very much. I don't have any questions, but some commentary. Colleagues, do you have any questions? >> No, but we appreciate your continued advocacy in this space. >> Thank you. >> Absolutely. I'm I'm a dreamer. And so I often think about just what's possible. My now 29 year old reminded me of the bucket [3:03:23 PM] old reminded me of the bucket years. So there was a period of time in another lifetime I was a florist. I started one of Austin's only eco chic floral. We were locally sourced plants and flowers. Back before it was popular. Needless to say, we went out of business. That said though, at the time I found myself hyper focusing on environmental and sustainability practices, including get in the shower, you get wet and you turn off the water, you lather yourself, then you rinse and you did so over a book and repurposed that water. Because we couldn't retrofit the house to repurpose greywater. Let's just say those were short showers. All that to say, it wasn't entirely practical and kind of became a thing of the past. But I really do think about retrofitting our plumbing systems, being impractical. But a starting from the ground up with sustainability practices being the standard. I dream about it pretty frequently, and I couldn't help but think about [3:04:24 PM] I couldn't help but think about during the course of wanting to bring this conversation forward, I thought about, and some folks won't be familiar with it, so I'll read. It's a wiki description, so you know, grain of salt, hostile architecture. I remember being I think it was Minneapolis. If I'm not mistaken, but I remember thinking, this bench is really uncomfortable. And our guide at the time talked to me about the design principles behind hostile architecture. Essentially, it's like anti-loitering architecture, anti bmxing and skateboarding, anti sleeping urine deflectors, all these. I mean, there's a whole principle and practice around hostile architecture and I just thought if there are major municipalities that are actively engaged in robust, hostile architecture, we should be actively engaged in robust, sustainable architecture at least in equal measure. And so [3:05:26 PM] least in equal measure. And so that's one of the things that that really kind of got me thinking along those lines of, you know, how do we deploy sustainable practices as just a matter of course, this is just what you do. We weren't able to get any of them to join us today. It was sort of short notice invitation. But as we continue the conversation, I'd love for us to be talking about income restricted multifamily, multifamily in general, giant big box stores, malls. You know, underutilized office spaces. I keep reading these articles about commercial infrastructure that's just laying and wasting, frankly. So I have a lot of thoughts and ideas around how we're using buildings and not frankly. So just really looking forward to continuing the conversation and can't wait to have more opportunities to discuss at length. And thank you for being with us today. >> Thank you. All right. >> With no further questions. [3:06:26 PM] >> With no further questions. Thank you. We're going to move on to a friend and favorite. We're going to call up. Oh dang it I skipped you. We're going to call up our Austin energy staff right now Rachel don't think I forgot about you. I'll keep the sentiment. Friend and favorite. Thank you. I'd like to call up our Austin energy staff to discuss our current solar panel initiatives. Colleagues, I want you to feel free to jump in if you have any questions as they go along, or any comments related to the topic. Hi there. Please introduce yourself. >> Hello! Thanks for having me today. My name is Tim Harvey. I'm the customer renewable solutions manager at Austin energy. >> Thank you, Mr. Harvey. Thank you for joining us. >> Yeah, I don't have a presentation for you, but I'm going to just kind of go through our solar programs and I'm sure some of this will really interest you. So I'll start off with our residential programs. We offer an incentive of $2,500. It's a flat incentive for qualifying residential solar [3:07:27 PM] qualifying residential solar arrays. We also have subscription programs. So a residential customer can subscribe to renewable energy if they perhaps don't have the access to capital to do a solar investment or have a shaded roof, or are a renter. They can participate in community solar as an option or green choice. And the green choice is a wind option. Community solar is more local solar focused. The community solar program by the way, is a it comes at a premium for market rate customers. And then there's a 50% carve out for low income customers to participate at no cost. They can actually achieve bill savings through the program and get green energy. So it's a pretty good program. It has been fully subscribed for years, and we're looking to expand that which kind of leads to the next option [3:08:27 PM] kind of leads to the next option for solar at Austin, which is a new option. And so it's the idea that we can utilize those unused commercial roofs, rooftops. A lot of times those don't get solar investments because they have tenants where there's a split incentive scenario. So the building owner does not get that direct return on that investment because they would have to install the solar behind the meter and then their tenants get bill reductions from the solar production. So what this allows for is that solar array to be installed in front of the meter, and we pay the solar owner directly so that may be a building owner. That might be a third party that gives the building owner a roof lease. So it allows them to monetize their roof while facilitating and hosting the solar array. That [3:09:32 PM] hosting the solar array. That then goes into the community solar program and expands that offering to more people. We also have multifamily incentives. So those can be in the form of an upfront capacity based incentive. We have upfront and capacity based incentives for non-profits as well. That helps to get over the cost hurdles that lay in front of a solar project. We have recently sold out the capacity based incentive program, and we're in the process of adding another tier to that program to extend it by five megawatts. So that should be up relatively soon, probably within a month. And then we have commercial incentives. So that can be multifamily as well. If they're master metered, that would probably be what they would go towards. Unless they're a nonprofit and the commercial incentives are performance based incentives. So we pay those out [3:10:33 PM] incentives. So we pay those out over a five year period, and it's based on the actual production of the system. And then everyone that installs solar behind their meter is has access to the value of solar rate, which is an ongoing rate for that. We provide customers as a credit bill for all of their production. So that is kind of our programs in a nutshell, and I'm happy to take any questions vary. >> The roof lease thing fascinated me. >> That's new to me. Yeah, I don't own my roof, but it sounds fascinating. >> Same. >> It's a new program. We hope to launch it in the middle of next month. It's been slightly delayed, but we were hoping this month. But now it's next month. >> It looks like you have questions. >> Fantastic. I had one brief question. It was generally about what is the timeline for someone who says they want to buy these solar panels to get them? You [3:11:33 PM] solar panels to get them? You know, purchased? I guess that's more on the private end. But then authorized for implementation on their roof. Approved by ehi, you know, what are those logistics like and how long would it take someone if they have the solar panels in hand and received and to communicate with Austin energy about. I'm going to install these. Can you come inspect it to getting up and running. >> Yeah. So there's a process to that. It varies from residential to commercial. Of course residential is typically a bit faster if it is an existing home then it also matters like what the what condition their main electrical panel is in and their service. If they have to do a service upgrade, then they have to schedule a shutdown and that can take a little bit longer. But you know, if it's smooth sailing, adopting, you know, for a typical customer, then they they go pull their permits, they [3:12:33 PM] they go pull their permits, they get it installed. It usually, you know for a residential home it can take days for a bigger commercial project. Months and then once they've got that installed and it's ready to be inspected, they call us Austin energy goes out and inspects that, and then we give them permission to operate and set the meters for them, and they're ready to go. >> And does that take additional permitting to alert you that they are going to be installing these solar panels on the roof or what? >> Yeah, there's a specific dsd. >> How does that work? >> There's a specific permit for solar projects. It's called the auxiliary power permit. So you know, any electrical contractor would need to go pull that permit prior to installing the project. If it's a more complicated job, we'll go out there, go out there and do on site analysis with them and kind of walk them through it. And then, you know, once they're done, we do the final inspections and help them [3:13:34 PM] inspections and help them through the end of the process. As well, making sure it's all safe. >> That sounds great. >> It's enlightening. >> Thank you. >> Fantastic. Any questions? >> This brought about a couple things for me, especially what you just closed with with the electrical contractor and permits because the city of Austin doesn't have any slowdown caused on permitting. So I'm going to ask some questions of our commissioner for that body, whether or not that's something that they've heard from electricians about any impediments to the speed of progress based on permitting. Something that occurred to me. And let me know whether or not this is a wild idea. But so as a renter, there are multiple rebates and incentive programs related to weatherization and efficiency that I wasn't eligible for because my landlord just wasn't interested in participating with the [3:14:36 PM] participating with the programmatic efforts, didn't want to do the paperwork, whatever the thing was. But like for a renter like me, for example, I'm a long term renter. All in all, I will have had a six year lease, so it makes sense for me on the front end to incur some costs to be able to, you know, reap the benefits, if you will, of participating in those programmatic efforts. Is there any sort of temporary solar option for long term leases like myself? So, you know, you sort of stick it in the ground or, you know, put it on the roof, but for just during the course of my lease in the property, that sort of thing. >> Yeah. So you can participate in the community solar program. So what that does is us through your participation, Austin energy will green up all of your energy through a solar project that we have. And so what we're doing is taking those renewable energy attributes from our solar project and applying them to your consumption and we have a third party that verifies all [3:15:38 PM] third party that verifies all that to make sure that we're not double accounting and making sure that that's all on the up and up. There is no cost to get into that program as a market rate. Customer non low income that you pay a small premium of. I think it's points or sorry it's 1.5 cents per kilowatt hour to start with. And then our current program, you'd lock in at that price. So it replaces the psa on your bill. So where the psa the power supply adjustment may go up for other customers. If you're a community solar customer that's locked in for 15 years, I see I think maybe the question I'm asking, though, is from the perspective of the utilization of the space that I occupy in which case generating some of that renewable energy in the space that I occupy, as opposed to participating in the community solar program where Austin energy is, you know, generating. >> So I have a roof, I have a [3:16:41 PM] >> So I have a roof, I have a front yard, I have a backyard, I have a side yard, I have panels, you know, options. I'm I'm more looking for temporary options for people who don't own the property. >> So like kind of a plug and play idea for example. >> Yeah. Like being able to lease the equipment and then give it back when it's time for me to move. >> Yeah. You can potentially lease equipment in Austin. What? You can't do is enter into a power purchase agreement with a solar provider, but you can enter into an equipment lease where you're just leasing the equipment, and then the power is yours. Got it. So that's that's a possibility as well. >> I appreciate that. >> Thank you very much. I think the only other question I may have had along the lines of your question around timeline, you said if you're a residential customer, potentially within days, if you're a commercial customer, potentially months, I'm curious to know. And you don't have to answer today. I'm curious to know what types of incentives would be appealing to commercial customers to lean in that direction, what sort of [3:17:44 PM] that direction, what sort of incentives we could offer as a body. >> What what type of incentives are you talking about? I guess I don't understand, so you said so. >> Council member Ellis asked about the timeline. What's the potential timeline for the turnaround? You said for commercial projects longer? Yes. The assumption for me was that there needs to be some incentive to expedite the process. >> Oh, well, it's really just a more complex installation. Okay. You know, it's bigger. It has, you know, more equipment tied to it. >> And so it's about logistics, not about not. >> Yeah, it's not about permitting delays as much. Yeah. There is a more extensive permitting process for commercial. They have to make sure that the, the roofs are capable of handling the load for example. So like those other reviews that occur for commercial, they prolong the process minimally, you know, but it's like when they run into [3:18:48 PM] it's like when they run into supply chain issues, that's when you get into the longer delays. >> I understand. >> Thank you. I appreciate that clarification. Thank you for presenting for us today. >> Thank you. Have a nice day. >> You too. And last but not least, on this item, we're going to have Rachel stone join us today. She's representing the Guadalupe neighborhood development corporation. Hi. >> Hi. >> Thanks for having me. This is fun. I also was an intern at center for maximum potential building systems with pliny, so feels like a room of old green building friends. It's a reunion. Yes. I wanted to come talk about green green roofs or solar for affordable housing. Just a little about what's been happening in that space. So we have worked pretty closely with Austin energy over the last five years or so to be able to utilize these green solar rebates. So I think the program, the multifamily program that Tim [3:19:50 PM] the multifamily program that Tim talked about has been successful in helping us get solar onto our rooftop. We use it at at Guadalupe neighborhood development corporation. We do single family homeownership, affordable housing, as well as multifamily, affordable housing. We have both of our existing multifamily properties. We're in the shared solar program that they established, and they both have solar on them. So that helps reduce what the affordable housing world is a little confusing on how the solar reaches the end user. It can either go directly to reducing their bill, or the nonprofit often will take over paying their bill so that it keeps it keeps bills stable. It's more you know, I don't it's really complicated and I don't want to get into the whole utility allowance thing that goes on with low income housing. >> If I may interrupt you briefly, you don't necessarily have to get into it here, but it would be, I think, helpful for us to understand the mechanics of that. If we could get a, you know, if you could elaborate in [3:20:52 PM] know, if you could elaborate in a separate. >> Yeah, really, really briefly tenants the way that the rent is calculated is based on what tenants can afford. >> And you can either have tenants pay the full rent that they can afford, minus a utility allowance that is calculated based on a very outdated system that is set by basically assessing how housing authority properties energy is used and that allowance is removed from the rent. So that the tenant can keep it and use it to pay their utility bill. But that's just a monthly number. So if their utility bill is, you know, if it's a hot summer or a cold winter, that's not necessarily going to reflect their actual usage. It's just an allowance versus if it's all bills paid, the property owner is covering the utility bill. So the rent the tenant is paying their maximum rent as opposed to getting that allowance. So at ngdc we have when we've installed solar, we've taken over the utility bill of the residents. So they no longer [3:21:53 PM] residents. So they no longer have to worry about those fluctuations. They like it. They like having their their bills paid, whereas the solar helps reduce our overall operating costs. So it's a savings to the nonprofit so that we're able to use that money to do all the other things that we do. So the way the rebate program works is that we, when we're able to build to do solar, we are finding a contractor who's going to install the solar. The rebate comes in to reduce the cost that we owe. And then maybe with the if we continue to have our the Ira and all of the federal investments, we would have a further incentive come back. I'm not sure if that program is going to survive the next administration, but we've been planning to use the solar incentives that have been established by the federal government. So the framework is quite good right now when you're pursuing solar as an affordable housing nonprofit, the problem is you still have to have the money up front. The not [3:22:53 PM] money up front. The not necessarily with the rebate program that Tim just described. But if you're going to get incentives back from the federal government, it comes after the installation. So it's a it's a tax like it's a tax return that you would get after you've installed it. So the issue is really just that there's not money to put these things into place with the current scale, the current economy of what's happening with affordable housing. So I have a couple of tax credit projects that we're trying to build, and there's just not money in the budget like, I can barely make the budget work to build the housing to begin with. And so solar is still considered an add on. So right now, in the budget, when you're pursuing affordable housing, you you basically have a contingency that's like this money is set aside. And if we don't have to spend it on eight things that get messed up, then we will use it to install the solar. So it's pretty uncommon, I think, in the affordable housing world that you're going in with solar in your budget, because we just don't have I [3:23:55 PM] because we just don't have I mean, our budgets are not working out right now, like the real hindrance to solar on affordable housing is that we still don't have enough money to do affordable housing. So I think that that's a problem. That's not so much in the energy side of things, but just that we still need more money in our Rota programs. We need more money available to make the make the housing work at all. It's been a really tough situation, with interest rates being really high and construction going all over the place in the last couple of years. So we're still just in that framework that, you know, if I can get this built and if I have contingency left, then yes, there's great programs to put solar in. But if I can get there is like a huge if still. So I think that's the and we the single family our homeownership program sort of works the same way. It's a little bit easier to put those deals together, but we are able to utilize the single family homeowner rebate as well. So when we're building putting [3:24:56 PM] when we're building putting solar on our homeowner programs, obviously those savings are going directly to the homeowner and so if you come by our community land trust, almost every house that we were able to put solar on on the street, they all have solar. And they, you know, it's very helpful for them. They have, I'd say, that neighborhood where everyone's got affordable mortgages and stable taxes because of the community land trust program and solar on their homes like they have extremely stable housing because they are not seeing spiking costs in any of those areas that a homeowner who's not in our community land trust program might experience. So I think that's kind of the affordable housing framework around. >> I appreciate that, you know, something that comes to mind for me, there is, I think about you know, the way an interest bearing bank account works. For example. And I just keep thinking, what part does the private sector play here? The endowments and trusts and grants potentially. So you know, I think oftentimes the risk [3:25:58 PM] think oftentimes the risk aversion is why the money, you know, doesn't get offered, you know, outside of altruistic purposes. But given that there is that federal guarantee, it's just a rebate or a tax return like you described it, I wonder what the appetite is for more private dollars to be allocated towards affordable housing and solar, considering they will get their money back. >> Yeah. >> You know well, and it's not so much getting their the I mean I did talk to foundation communities about how they were able to do a bunch of sola rooftop projects, and they actually worked with our with congress to get an allocation of funds that help them do the upfront cost. And, you know, just it just carries you to the next project. Typically, we wouldn't borrow to wait on rebates because first of all, you with the federal government, you don't know when they're going to come. And so we wouldn't want to be paying interest on something like that. But I do think if I had a [3:26:58 PM] But I do think if I had a project where I knew we were going to close and get to the finish line, you know, we would be planning to put solar on the roof. Certainly, like there is that infrastructure. So once we're in the construction phase and able to keep an eye on the contingency and start fundraising, yes, there are sources out there to help with that upfront cost. I don't think that's a I don't think the getting the money to make it to the tax return is an enormous hurdle. It would be exciting for funders or for different groups to put the money in. It's just really getting to the point where I'd even be able to be looking to that, because it's like, is the is there going to be a roof to put the solar on? So it's really just a more fragmented process in terms of how we can get there and get the but, you know, we design our buildings completely solar ready. The intention is to put the solar on them so it is just it might not be there when the ribbon cutting happens, but with both of our projects, we put solar on after they were already [3:27:58 PM] solar on after they were already built because that's when we knew we could get it up and running. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> That was all I had. I really appreciate you coming out and talking with us today. Did you have any questions? >> No questions. Just great information. >> Thank you. Thanks so much. >> Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of your day. Last and certainly not least, I think we have Zach from the sustainability department to talk to us about the city of Austin's efforts and role in and the subject matter. Sustainability office, I think, probably does a broad spectrum of things, but I'm curious to see, you know, y'all's perspective around green rooftops and other green building design initiatives and just wanting to, you know, know how we can help to facilitate moving those initiatives forward. >> Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. Good afternoon. Council members. I'm Zach Bauer, chief sustainability officer here for the city of Austin. So with the [3:28:59 PM] the city of Austin. So with the climate equity plan, we have the goal of net zero community wide greenhouse gas emissions by 2040. A major component of our of our emissions comes from buildings. Over 45% of our emissions come from electricity and natural gas use that's used in buildings. So energy efficiency, renewable energy, all of those things are essential to us. Reducing community wide greenhouse gas emissions. I was asked specifically today to talk about green roofs. We heard a lot about solar in in Austin. Our Austin energy green building program really is leading the way on sustainable design and buildings and energy efficiency in new construction. But two green buildings about 15 years ago actually was the sort of initial push and charge and excitement that sort of came around around green roofs. So back in, actually back in 2009, city council passed the first resolution directing that city [3:30:00 PM] resolution directing that city staff look into green roofs. There was a green roof advisory group that concluded their work in 2011, so that was actually 13 years ago, published their implementation plan to advocate for and push and support the creation of green roofs in our community. So they essentially created sort of four mechanisms to support and incentivize the implementation of green roofs in Austin. And green roofs can be a great sort of solution for reducing emissions. And preparing for adapting and preparing and adapting for a changing climate. Right? They can capture stormwater, treat stormwater, can increase energy efficiency, water efficiency, create biodiversity and ecosystems, cool the area to mitigate heat island effect. So there are a lot of benefits for the community when these things do get built. So the four areas that the city currently incentivizes green roofs are the first ones. The land development [3:31:02 PM] first ones. The land development code, our land development code permits accessible, accessible green roofs to fulfill private common open space requirements. The second one is planning the planned unit development process within zoning. Accessible green roofs can count towards open space requirements, allowing developers to meet certain criteria by incorporating green roofs into their designs. The third one is the downtown density bonus program. The program offers additional floor area for developments that include green roofs, and so that that's a benefit to in that sector. And then the fourth one, the fourth one is the Austin energy green building program itself. So the rating system provides several options to secure points, to use green roofs to contribute to achieving high certification levels in their certification program. So there's no question that the city of Austin has has been supportive of this of this solution. I guess I would say when over the last 24 hours, [3:32:02 PM] when over the last 24 hours, when I went and talked to experts at Austin energy green, green building and experts at watershed protection, I sort of heard that green roofs haven't really fully caught on and you don't see them everywhere. With all the buildings in our city due to several factors, they have a high installation cost right? When you build a new building and put this in, it's not cheap. There's also increased maintenance requirements compared to traditional roofs. Traditional roof. You just leave it. You're going to put plants on a roof. It's going to take more attention. There are structural concerns and you have to actually design the building a specific way to be able to handle additional soil, water plants on top of a building, need for specialized design and installation expertise and then challenges with plant selection and water management. I think this is really the main one that I heard is that in northern climates like Detroit, Chicago, New York, Toronto, Seattle, we get consistent rain and those cities get consistent rain, and [3:33:03 PM] cities get consistent rain, and it can be a lot simpler to essentially install plants and then just let them grow over time in our in our very hot and dry climate, in Austin, it can be just more a lot more challenging to continue to water plants and, and support them to stay alive on top of green roof. That's essentially all I have for now. I think it's it can be a really good part of a green building and of sustainable design in our community. It's just going to take the right specific building owner or designer and sort of situation for it to work. >> I agree, thank you very much. Do you have any questions? >> A quick question, there's no offsets currently. If there's a green roof and stormwater capture for rainwater gardens, there's no offset for impervious cover. Right. I'm thinking of a building that's rectangular. And then it is trying to fully capture all of the water that's falling on the roof. And utilizing rainwater capture on site. There's no impervious cover for the footprint underneath. Right? >> I don't think so. Okay. [3:34:04 PM] >> I don't think so. Okay. >> And that's a conversation you and I have brought up a couple of times is how can we better utilize these to better integrate the space for for plants and try to make sure we are capturing all the great things that our ecosystem can bring to the people who live here. And so I'm interested in that. I know I brought it up during the density bonus update that we're currently talking about, trying to understand how can we better incentivize this and say this is actually better if people are living, you know, closer in walkable communities, connected, complete communities, and getting that rooftop garden rainwater capture formula, I think that's really where my ideal is. And so I would love to know any insight you can provide us on the back end about how we, as council can better support that and help incentivize these would be fantastic. Great. >> And this is just where I start dreaming again and start thinking about, you know, because it in my mind's eye, the future of farming doesn't look like, you know, inclement weather conditions, you know, [3:35:05 PM] weather conditions, you know, the climate or the global warming. The future of farming doesn't look like sticking seeds in the ground. And hoping for the best. You know, I think the future of farming in so many ways is going to be agricultural technology, addressing, going vertical, going indoors, going, you know, alternatives to traditional soil. It's aquaponics. It's hydroponics. It's thinking about, you know, I'm a big gardener and a lot of my plants, not only are they native, require very little water, they don't necessarily want traditional soil. Even so, coco coir for example, which is extremely lightweight. It doesn't weigh what soil would weigh when wet. I think this is just another opportunity for us to really dig down deep and work with our partners around innovative practices and landscaping design and, you know, really think about things like being able to take care of pollinators, for example. So wildflower seeds, they don't want a lot. You could put an [3:36:06 PM] want a lot. You could put an inch of soil on top of a roof and just dump a bunch of wildflower seeds that are native and let them go crazy and, you know, have our pollinators have a feast. You know, I just I really want us to start thinking way outside of the box about just utilizing the space and not necessarily being encumbered by what would otherwise be a barrier. I think there's a lot of things we're just not even considering yet, and it's my hope that we use so, for example, my office, we have a meeting tomorrow about this. So the university of Texas, the Mccombs school of business, they have what's called the mba plus program. So basically, a cohort of grad students are taking on a series of projects. So the application for the spring semester is live currently. So what you do is you complete the application, they go through the applications and they pick a project. And basically you get a cohort of grad students who are working on your project to solve a challenge. And so programs like that. And then, you know, [3:37:06 PM] like that. And then, you know, we had two folks who were, you know, here today and had the opportunity to reunite with Mr. Fisk. It's like if we really take into consideration what resources we have available to us and fully utilize them. So, you know, how many educational institutions do we have partnerships with that we could be working with to really take the opportunity to think outside of the box for maximum use of space and place maximum consideration around climate reality, maximum consideration around, god forbid we work with our friends up the road at A&M, you know, and really start thinking about from an agricultural technology perspective, how do we have a more comprehensive approach to I mean, those green roofs don't have to just necessarily you know, grow flowers and ornamental grasses. What if we're producing food? What if we're talking about urban farming and food production on top of these roofs? Does it change the considerations if there's some component of the potential for revenue [3:38:06 PM] potential for revenue generation, cut flowers cost money. What if we could do that? You know, I just I really want us to start thinking outside of the box when it comes to these considerations. So I'm glad this is I think in my mind's eye, the tip of the iceberg for these conversations. And I really appreciate you being here with us today. >> Yeah. Thank you. Great. Thank you. >> All right folks. So that that that that that we're moving on to item number eight where we are going to discuss minimizing barriers to relocating residential structures, which, by the way, I did not know was a thing until about ten years ago. And I started talking to some folks who who move residential structures and recognizing all the things that go into it, the expense that goes into it, you know, from a logistics perspective, it is fascinating. So I really appreciate that we have the opportunity to hear from you today. We're going to talk about this item. And then after we hear from development services on this topic, our final item is going to discuss [3:39:08 PM] final item is going to discuss future meetings and items we may take up at that time. So please take the floor. Thank you, thank you. Introduce yourself please. >> Yes. Good afternoon chair and committee members. My name is Brenda Delagarza and I'm assistant director with development services department. And today I'm going to be providing an update on the strategies we've developed regarding relocating residential structures. On November 2nd, 2023, resolution number 20231102-024 was passed. This resolution asks staff to explore opportunities to build awareness of house relocation options and identify and minimize the barriers for a person seeking to relocate a home. To begin this work, dsd held a stakeholder engagement session last spring to discuss solutions and potential challenges around the process of relocating a home. Representatives from reuse people, preservation Austin, the Austin infill coalition, and [3:40:10 PM] Austin infill coalition, and members of the architecture community participated in this session. After dsd had the opportunity to engage with our stakeholders, a memo on dsd's recommended recommendations was issued to mayor, city council and city management on July 16th of 2024. During the stakeholder engagement session, four key focus areas rose to the top the first is to build more public awareness about home relocations. The second was the need for workforce training for contractors and general education of the home relocation process for the public. The group also identified the need to streamline the permitting process for home relocations and the fourth area was to evaluate department policies and identify opportunities for improvement. With those four focus areas in mind, our first strategy was to develop an enhanced [3:41:12 PM] develop an enhanced informational web page on home relocations. While dsd already had an existing had existing information on relocations. This new page is written for the customer that may be going through the permitting process for the very first time, and it features more in-depth information to guide our customers step by step on this page. Customers, customers will find important preparation steps so that informed decisions can be made before beginning the permit process. The relocation process also involves working with different groups within the city, so those resources, checklists and permit applications are all listed in a centralized location on the website. A key enhancement of the site also includes detailed instructions for the 77 different relocation options that exist for a customer. For example, a customer may want to move a home from inside Austin city limits to inside Austin city limits, or it may be moving [3:42:13 PM] city limits, or it may be moving inside Austin city limits to outside Austin city limits. This web page is now live and can be found at. Austin, Texas governor forward slash relocation. Our next strategy was to develop a way to increase the visibility of active demolition and relocation projects. We accomplished this through an online development tracker that allows you to see all of the active demolitions and relocations in the city. You can also view the age of any structure for a proposed demolition and there is a feature that allows you to filter by council districts. The tracker is live and available for use today. Along with that tracker, dsd is also developing a companion instructional video for the tracker, which is projected to launch in spring of 2025. Shifting to an education focus, dsd is planning to launch online training in the spring of [3:43:14 PM] online training in the spring of 2025. The training will be tailored to contractors and the public, and will highlight the benefits of a house relocation, as well as a review of the permit process. Dsd is also making updates to our relocation and demolition permit applications. Submittal requirements will be found in fuller detail, and we've added a link to the development tracker on our forms and our demolition application now. Features relocation information on them so that the public understands there are alternatives to demolitions. Those applications will be completed next month. And last dsd has evaluated the permit process for relocations and has made the change to prioritize relocation applications for faster processing through the prioritization and attention to relocation applications, staff can adhere to the 3 to 5 business day timeline for [3:44:16 PM] business day timeline for relocations. On the horizon, dsd has additional recommendations and further analysis surrounding relocations. Dsd intends to develop internal metrics for relocations, which give us important data to make future decisions. Austin resource recovery intends to explore deconstruction, workforce development and consider programs that support reuse outlets. And finally, dsd will perform further analysis on the feasibility of lowering fees and or identifying a funding source to waive fees. Those are the updates I have for you today, and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. >> Any questions? >> I don't think so. That's just I looked up the development tracker link and it has a lot of great information on it. Great, awesome. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. I really appreciate your presentation today and lastly we're going to take up item number nine, which is the opportunity for us to [3:45:16 PM] is the opportunity for us to discuss future meetings and items that we may want to bring forward for discussion here at the housing and planning committee for future meetings. >> It looks like vice chair alter was online, but I don't see him anymore. So we get to do whatever we want. Oh, what do you know? I have an item that I'd like to bring forward for future for consideration, but I'd love for you to go first. If there's anything on your mind, I think I'm all right. >> I just think that's a fascinating conversation around the rooftop gardens. And so, I don't know, I was kind of inspired to say, let's work on this. Maybe we work on it behind the scenes together. I'd love to. You've had a lot of good ideas about this over the years, so I don't even know if that needs to be on the agenda. We can just make it happen. >> I'd love to. Thank you very much. I know you know. So one of the things that I've been looking into for my retirement plan sometimes looking at my retirement plan often gives me the opportunity to learn things about that are applicable here at city hall. And yes, my retirement plan is to be a [3:46:17 PM] retirement plan is to be a farmer. And so I'm learning a lot about agriculture and farmland. Did you know that farmland is one of one of the most sought after property there is in real estate, but also one of the most valuable things you can invest in? Warren Buffett says farmland and art. And so and I listen to Warren Buffett and so that to say, I think repurposing space in that way could help us to sort of bypass the barrier that is urban farmers not being able to afford the real estate that is farmland. So just thinking outside of the box, you know, moving forward. But the thing that I want to think about for future consideration is zombie real estate. So I'm hearing upwards of 60% of office space being completely abandoned, and not just post-covid necessarily, but because people are working differently. And so I'm thinking [3:47:18 PM] differently. And so I'm thinking about that zombie real estate being repurposed for housing. I've seen a few examples in peer cities, and I'm super fascinated to see what it is that we could do to repurpose some of these buildings that, you know, are taking up space and just sitting there. Most especially during the course of us having a continued housing crisis, not just in Austin, but nationally. And so a future item for consideration for, for me would be let's look at how we can repurpose some of the property that would require very little in the way of additional build out and get more housing on the ground and places and spaces that could be dual purpose. So mixed use spaces that otherwise were sitting empty office spaces. And that was the only one I had to bring forward. I think it's great. All righty. [3:48:19 PM] think it's great. All righty. Well y'all, with that said thank you for joining us today. It is now 3:48 P.M. And with no further discussion, we are calling the housing and planning committee meeting adjourned. Have a good one.