Climate, Water, Environment, and Parks Committee (CWEPC) Meeting Transcript – 9/24/2025 Title: ATXN-1 (24hr) Channel: 1 - ATXN-1 Recorded On: 9/24/2025 6:00:00AM Original Air Date: 9/24/2025 Transcript Generated by SnapStream ================================== Please note that the following transcript is for reference purposes and does not constitute the official record of actions taken during the meeting. For the official record of actions of the meeting, please refer to the Approved Minutes. [9:32:00 AM] I'm going to call the meeting to order. It is Wednesday, September 24th, 9:32 A.M. At 301 west second street. We have councilmember Siegel here. Councilmember Ellis is joining us virtually. And so I'm going to check to see if we have any public communication. >> Yes, we have one. We're going to have Chris flores. >> Okay. Good morning. Elected committee members. My name is Chris flores and I'm speaking to you on item two. I guess before it's presented to you, I [9:33:03 AM] before it's presented to you, I haven't ask. I'm asking if a city department could please make an annual report in the form of a map that overlays the streets and the parks of the city with a heat map. It would be useful to see the progress the city's making in buying parkland and planting trees on these lands. The heat map, I think, is the true common denominator in this endeavor. In it you will see shoal creek park, for example, an area that's always greener and cooler compared to the hotter brown Orange Zones in the city. Golf courses on the heat map appear yellow green. They don't offer the level of cooling that TRE canopies canopies offer. I think golf courses should be shouldn't be considered parks. I've tried strolling through mine at muni and I was told to leave for my safety. I could get hit over the head with a [9:34:03 AM] get hit over the head with a golf ball. The point of the of the greenery is to offer relief from the heat. And if people can't stroll through these areas, they aren't really parks. Not to the people. The same goes for land set aside for water conservation. They aren't stroll able parks either. Same for cemeteries. If if we had a way and a map to measure the places where people go after work for relief from the heat, it could become our report card. As you raise money from bonds to buy more land and plant trees on them. We we need a way to measure the progress. The TRE canopy relief hasn't been added to very much in the last few years, and it's getting hotter. I would like to plead today, on behalf of the communities, of the people on the eastern Zones of the city, who need the TRE cover urgently [9:35:04 AM] who need the TRE cover urgently for their health. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. All right, well, we will start with item number two, a briefing on the parkland acquisition data. Doctor Amanda Masino. Good morning. >> Good morning. My name is Amanda Masino. I'm a professor of biology and director of environmental justice at the huston-tillotson university, Austin's only hbcu and the number one private hbcu in Texas. I am here today as a volunteer representing evergreen Austin, a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization comprised of diverse, informed, and invested women with ties to Austin's green communities. We are committed to ensuring Austin invests urgently, [9:36:04 AM] Austin invests urgently, generously and equitably in green spaces and green infrastructure. Land is the living platform for everything evergreen. Austin believes in parks, green infrastructure as nature based solutions and climate mitigation. It is the essential part of protecting and enhancing Austin's quality of life through improved air and water quality and the critical benefits of parks. So let's see what's happened in our backyard over the last decades. Note that the red in these slides represents the gray infrastructure, and gives you a graphic illustration of our growth. 68% growth in the last decade. So we go from 1985 to 95, 2005, 2015. And here we are today. And in this picture [9:37:05 AM] are today. And in this picture you can also see the green we have saved over those years. On this issue. Austin had an extraordinary beginning, demonstrating remarkable vision and resolve, guided by a profound understanding of the importance of the public realm. 33 years ago, local officials boldly pursued policies that aggressively preserved parkland and open space, an initiative that would come to define the city's legacy. Notably in 1992. And this is the section you see highlighted on the slide, the city reached a pinnacle embracing a robust green culture and committing significant financial resources to protect Austin's quality of life. And you will note that in that year, 100% of the $20 million Pritchard package was for land acquisition. But in our years of greatest growth, [9:38:07 AM] our years of greatest growth, we failed to adequately fund land acquisition. And you can see the percentage for land drop in the subsequent years, with the latest number at the bottom of 30% of the total park package going towards land allocation. Why did we turn our back on green during the decade of our greatest growth? Maybe we thought we had done it, or assumed that the single member district change would promote the common good. Maybe we had other priorities. Meanwhile, the price of land soared. But pard at least had a fallback. Parkland dedication fees that were producing about 20 million a year in land acquisition funds until the Texas legislature ended, almost all of them in 2023. Bottom line after pard spends its portion [9:39:09 AM] after pard spends its portion of the 50 million saved from the aborted climate bond, it basically has nothing for land acquisition. As it turns out, we relied too heavily on our parkland dedication fees. On the climate mitigation front. The other compelling use of land, the council passed a comprehensive climate equity plan in 2018. But as is often the case, the council failed to fund it. Since 2018, city staff has made some progress on these unfunded items, but too many remain unfunded. These four areas in particular stand out. Land acquisition, urban forests, agricultural lands, and sustainable land management and land management of city lands. But climate change has not waited. Austin's climate is changing. Here you see a [9:40:11 AM] changing. Here you see a graphic representation of the increased numbers of days where the temperature will be over 100°f within the next 50 to 75 years. Austin will get drier. This graphic is a prediction of the drought index, and you can see, regardless of the model used to predict the amount of drought, we see a continual trend towards more and more dry days. Austin will get thirstier as the population increases. Our need for clean potable water will go up. And the Edwards aquifer is facing drought. For the second time in its 38 year history. What does the public want? We believe austinites strongly support land acquisition for parkland and open space. One need look only at the percentage of voter [9:41:13 AM] only at the percentage of voter approval for green bonds over the years. In 2024, evergreen Austin ran a poll of 400 registered city of Austin voters. And these are the pie charts you see in the middle of the slide. 88% of our respondents agreed with the statement we must protect and acquire green and open space because once it is gone, it's gone forever. And finally, we have the survey. HEB annually conducts on all of its customers in central Texas, uniquely among all their markets, austinites chose the environment as their top choice. We think part of the reason that the public support is so high is that people appreciate the benefits of green. Green enhances property values, boosts tourism, reduces health care costs, reduces air pollution, reduces stormwater runoff and support supports economic development. Now, [9:42:14 AM] economic development. Now, Austin is not alone in facing these challenges. Other Texas cities affected by the loss of parkland dedication fees, such as Fort Worth, Dallas and Houston, are undertaking efforts to plant trees and curate green spaces. However, we think more is required. Restoring the vision of 1992 demands land banking, the economics of land purchase demands, land banking and the extraordinary growth we have experienced demands land banking. Here you see Trevino park, which illustrates the wisdom of getting ahead of development. The city bought this land for 8,000,025 years ago, and it is estimated to be worth 100 million today. Once the land is banked, we often hear that we can't afford to maintain the parks and open spaces we have. How can we maintain new land acquisition? [9:43:15 AM] maintain new land acquisition? And why buy more land when we have locked up parks that we have not developed? Communities need to be involved in the design of their neighborhood parks, buy the land and wait for the communities to come to them. With careful planning and minimal inputs, you can sequester 20 to 30 metric tons of CO2 over ten years. Total establishment costs run from 800 to 2000 per acre. Maintenance costs after two years is 75 to 250 per acre. Not only can we afford to maintain these lands, we can make them work for us. So here's our ask. We ask that you fund, protect and preserve Austin's unique green spaces. Fund 300 million towards parkland and open space acquisition in the 2026 bond. Advance these bond funds in [9:44:18 AM] Advance these bond funds in full in year one. Develop a viable strategy to fund in full the approved climate equity plan and build in annual reports to the public of your progress and put Austin's banked lands to use sequestering carbon. These are some of the slides or some of the sources that we have consulted in this presentation. And this is a list of our board members, some of whom are here today, along with our founder, to answer any questions you might have. Thank you for your time. >> Very good. Thank you so much. I'll turn it over to my colleagues for any questions. We have. >> A nice robust discussion. >> Yes. And may I'm trying to figure out if we want to have Bartz presentation. Then we can ask y'all both at the same time. I think that would probably be. We have a you can just I don't know, it's just Randy or a three of us. Okay. So we'll [9:45:19 AM] three of us. Okay. So we'll call them up and then I think we can have the four of y'all said, I think it'll be a little easier to have a panel discussion here in a second. So I will call up pard. And let's see, we have robin Hammons, Randy Scott. Oh, and our director. Welcome. >> Good morning. We brought a whole team here. >> You did. >> You did, because this is a very important issue. So I'm director of Austin parks and recreation, and we're here to present to you some information on our on our park land acquisition, both our strategy and provide you an update on sort of how we're doing specifically around a couple of our key metrics in terms of how much parkland we're acquiring, which is one metric, is really about how much per capita acreage we have. And then the more important metric around access, which is really our goal of ensuring that every resident in the city of Austin has access to a park within a [9:46:20 AM] has access to a park within a ten minute walk, five minutes within the urban core. So I'm going to turn it over to liana, who is our assistant director who oversees this work. >> Good morning. Thank you for inviting us. We are excited to talk about parkland acquisition and explain our what has been done during the last several years. As the director said, I serve as an assistant director for the department, and I'm here with members of the parkland dedication and acquisition team to present on the land acquisition program. So we will go to if we go to the agenda. We will start by discussing the accomplishments from the last bond, the 2018 bond, and how the bond allowed us to progress on our long term [9:47:24 AM] us to progress on our long term goals. We will walk through the significant impacts that came from hb 1526, which you already heard, that was passed in the legislation in 2023, and the impact that it had on on our land acquisitions, and that made land acquisitions and land bagging so much more critical at this time. And we will close by touching on the goals that we have set for the 2026 bond, which is the goals are still in development. Of course, there will be much more discussion on those. And with that, I am pleased to introduce Brandi Scott, who is the land use manager and parkland dedication. To start the presentation. [9:48:24 AM] To start the presentation. >> Good morning, council members again, Randy Scott. I manage the parkland acquisition parkland dedication team before I pass it to robin to run through the presentation, I want to touch on some of the highlights of the 2018 bond package. In 2018, the voters approved 45 million for parkland acquisition. We have spent $31 million of that and are in active negotiations on the other $14 million. Hope to close soon on those. We've acquired well over 100 acres of parkland. We've added 30 new parks or park expansions. We have one of our key performance indicators, which is how many residents we have within walking distance of a park. We were able to increase that service by 7%. So 7% of austinites are now within [9:49:28 AM] austinites are now within walking distance with the 2018 bond package. Each dollar that we spent of bond funding, we've been able to match with $0.33 of parkland dedication fee in lieu of that's enabled us to expand that $45 million for each dollar $0.33 we've matched with parkland dedication. Without bond funding for land acquisition, the parkland dedication fee in lieu of is insufficient to acquire land, so. Thank you, and I will pass it to robin Haynes to run through the presentation. Thank you. >> Good morning, council members. My name is robin Hammonds. I'm a principal planner with the parkland acquisition team. So as Randy mentioned, we acquired 30 new parks. I just wanted to run through a few of the notable acquisitions. We have cooper neighborhood park, which serves district five and two. It's right on the border, and this [9:50:29 AM] right on the border, and this is a really rapidly growing residential area. Lots of condos going in. So this five acre park will be developed to serve that area. We have bull creek bluff neighborhood park, which closes a really critical gap in our bull creek greenbelt. And it offers these really beautiful, majestic views of a limestone bluff. So if you haven't visited, it's definitely worth it. Picnic with your family. We have jamestown neighborhood park, which was added to a deficient area in north central Austin. We have shadywood neighborhood park, which features open spaces and creek frontage in a interesting storied history as well along south boggy creek. And then we have college road pocket park, which is directly adjacent to huston-tillotson university, and also within a rapidly growing neighborhood in east Austin. Those are just some highlights, many more other acquisitions. So as you [9:51:31 AM] other acquisitions. So as you can see, many acquisitions similar to those mentioned are spread across the city. This map displays the dispersion of new park land in areas in yellow, showing the highest concentration of funding invested in those acquisitions. As evident in the map, the land acquisition is taking place kind of across the city, with an emphasis on park deficient areas and expanding green belt systems. In 2018, the Austin parks and recreation long range plan long range plan set a goal of 24 acres of parkland per 1000 people. So we report on that metric each year. In 2006, as Austin's population was growing, we started to dip below that park service goal, and we continued to decline until the adoption of the 2016 parkland dedication ordinance. This ordinance requires the parkland dedication ordinance. [9:52:32 AM] parkland dedication ordinance. Requirements, coupled with the 2018 bond, helped increase the park service level for the first time in over a decade. Despite continuous rapid population growth over the city. In 2009, city council adopted the urban parks initiative, setting a goal to provide parks within a 5 to 10 minute walk of all residents. As mentioned earlier, we are now at 70% of our residents within walking distance of a park. Austin parks and recreation continue to identify new acquisitions and dedications to increase this percentage of residents within walking distance of a park year over year. >> This is working. >> So now I'll kind of go into the impacts of hb 1526. Okay. Perfect. Thank you. So parkland dedication or pld is a really essential tool for the [9:53:33 AM] essential tool for the department to reach its long term goals. Pld allows the department to require new park land to be dedicated to the city, or fees to be paid for every new residential development to ensure new residents are served with parkland. When we think about our parkland dedication requirements, we think about them in terms of how they serve Austin's residents new and existing. One of the best metrics for that is our park level of service, which is expressed in the acres of thousand in number of acres per thousand people. The 2016 parkland dedication ordinance set the level of service at 9.4 acres per 1000 people. This means new residents were meeting about 40% of the park service goal of 24 acres per 1000 people. This is considered a proportional share of the new residents impact, and after the 2016 ordinance went into effect, we saw park service keep pace, the park service level keep pace even as our population was also rapidly growing. Hb 1526 changed that dramatically by [9:54:34 AM] changed that dramatically by reducing the land dedication requirement and removing any kind of proportional impact from the equation. At best. The new state legislature parkland dedication ordinance meets about 12% of that 24 acre per thousand goal, with three acres per thousand people in the suburban area. But downtown, that percentage plummets to just 0.3% of our goal, with just 1000 people crammed into an area less than a 10th of an acre. That's their service level for downtown. For reference, that's 1000 people crammed into the footprint of Joe's coffee on south congress. Moving forward, April will rely more heavily on bond bond funding to keep up with Austin's desired level of park service, or watch our park level service plummet in a rapidly densifying city, changing the nature of Austin itself. The other way we were impacted by hb 1526 is with the [9:55:38 AM] impacted by hb 1526 is with the fees. So under our previous ordinance, every dollar of bond funding was matched with $0.33 from parkland. Dedication funds and pld brought in up to 26 million annually to support acquisition throughout Austin's parks. This funding was collected at the time of site plan or subdivision application approval, meaning it could be appropriated, invested and invested in a park near new residents and ready when they moved in. Hb 1526 changed the collection time of certificate of occupancy to certificate of occupancy, which delays the investment of these funds by an average of five years. This results in a short term funding gap of about 15 to 20 million a year for up to the next five years, and a significant delay in delivery of parkland to new residents in order to to deliver developed parks to Austin to keep up with population growth. It's critical that we invest in land as soon as the funding is available. This practice of purchasing land for later [9:56:39 AM] purchasing land for later development is called land banking. Land banking is an essential practice for any group that manages land. Acquiring land at today's prices saves Austin's residents money, as the cost of land appreciates year over year. For parkland, that's millions of dollars of savings per park over ten years. The parkland can be managed as open space with minimal maintenance costs, and the public is able to start enjoying the land for passive recreation and connection to nature from day one. I'll go into more detail about the benefits of the environmental impacts on the following slides. Communicating the benefits of land banking to residents and stakeholders is essential to build trust and ensure support for upcoming bond requests. So land banking serves as more than just a good financial investment. The land is protected from commercial development and provides numerous environmental benefits, including carbon sequestration, which, depending on the TRE [9:57:41 AM] which, depending on the TRE coverage, parks sequester 1 to 1.85 metric tons of carbon per year per acre. Parks continue to contribute to urban cooling and are an average of five degrees cooler than the rest of the city. They provide an opportunity to proactively manage wildfire risks through fuel reduction. Undeveloped parks are also an opportunity for ecological restoration and the management of erosion, hazard and water quality Zones. Finally, undeveloped parks connect our community to nature through passive recreation trails. What's important to know is that the management of the land to yield these benefits costs very little. So this slide kind of breaks down the cost per acre. So one concern we hear raised about land banking is the cost to maintain the land in an undeveloped state. It's important to understand the actual costs associated with land, bank land and the relationship of those costs to the appreciation of the land year over year, when the park is first purchased, the [9:58:42 AM] is first purchased, the property is cleared of any debris and buildings and then secured to secure to ensure it's safe for passive recreation. The park is then maintained for passive recreation until it's ready to go through the planning process for an infill park adjacent to existing neighbors. This just means regular mowing to match the private lawns around it. For a greenbelt, this is just mowing the right away to keep it clear, and sometimes we'll activate some urban trails and do some selective clearing so people can use it for nature hikes for for destination parks, this is mowing it occasionally to manage successive growth, as well as potentially adding it to the land management plan. This is a more active management to make the land work as a carbon sink or manage wildfire risk in the city. In all cases, maintaining undeveloped park land comes at a very low cost of hundreds of dollars per acre annually, compared to the rapid land appreciation cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars per acre annually over the course of ten years, we are saving the [9:59:43 AM] of ten years, we are saving the public millions per park in public acquisition funds by prioritizing purchasing land today and keeping the land for passive recreation, rather than delaying the parkland investment to the future. So now that we've covered the importance of growing our park system as Austin grows and investing in parkland with available funding as soon as possible, we can talk about the goals for the upcoming 2026 bond. Austin parks and recreation will work to close our park deficiency gaps through the city, and bring more than 70% of austinites within walking distance of a park through infill pocket and neighborhood park acquisitions. Bond funding will be invested into land acquisitions for recreation center, which the recreation center gaps analysis identified should be in southeast Austin. Bond funding will go toward continued acquisition of the Colorado river frontage for the trail corridor and recreational nodes in accordance with the Colorado river vision plan and council [10:00:44 AM] river vision plan and council direction. Likewise, bond funding will be focused on gaps in greenbelts and greenways, closing critical holes in trail systems like onion creek, Williamson creek, south boggy, Renard little and northern walnut creek, among others. Where feasible, Austin parks and recreation will take a one city approach, teaming up with complementary departments for land acquisition that meets multiple city goals such as affordable housing, multimodal transportation networks, libraries, water quality and protection. All of these goals inherently and deliberately contribute directly to meeting the goals of the climate equity plan, ensuring the continued expansion of the natural systems responsible. Sequestering carbon as identified in the plan through land acquisition. This slide shows a general shows a general priority areas for land acquisition throughout the city, including the highest priority areas for in-fill parks. The [10:01:44 AM] areas for in-fill parks. The critical gaps in greenbelts that we've identified throughout the city, and a centralized location for the recreation center. The light yellow area is already served by parkland. April prioritizes acquisitions based on park deficiency of an area, as well as the demographic variables including concentration of children, low income households, people of color, projected population growth, and health outcomes. Prioritizing equity ensures that the department serves those that need the parkland the most. The site selection criteria for new recreation center was identified in the 2024 facility assessment and gap analysis conducted by the department, based on demographic and participation analysis. The analysis shows that southeast Austin had insufficient access to recreation program, and that new land was needed to address this deficiency. So looking forward, we have the sort of calculated the anticipated [10:02:45 AM] calculated the anticipated impact of the 2026 bond, and it's broken down on this slide for every 100 million in allocated for arc for parkland acquisition. So of course it can be extrapolated out based on the average land value across the different park typologies. Staff estimated the amount of new parkland we expect to acquire. We would expand our greenbelts by about 200 acres, closing critical gaps needed for trail construction and expansion. Greenbelts are particularly good candidates for cross-departmental collaboration due to their environmental benefit opportunities. We can expand destination parks by about 60 acres, including land for recreation center in southeast Austin. And on top of that, we can expand pocket and neighborhood parks throughout the city by about 60 acres. This contributes most significantly to bringing us closer to the goal of serving every austinite within the park, within a park walking distance of their home. Most importantly, it's key to understand the [10:03:46 AM] it's key to understand the value in investing in parkland today. Land values reliably increase year over year, and waiting to invest in this parkland to a future bond can cost the public significantly. Based on the land value appreciation data from Travis county appraisal district, staff estimates that there will be there to be $150 million savings to the public Burt public for purchasing land today, rather than waiting ten years to invest. The land can be banked and used passively until the park infrastructure can be built, contributing to the health and beauty of our city as we grow. Thank you. >> All right. Well, I'm going to invite doctor Masino back up for our conversation here and talk about all of it at once. I will turn it over to my colleagues. Councilmember Ellis. >> Good question. I love that purple map that was at the end, but I don't see it in backup. Where can I find that online? [10:04:46 AM] Where can I find that online? >> It will be posted. We we've updated, but we can also send it to you. >> Is that one that's stagnant or is there an arcgis link? Okay. >> We'll we'll share a PDF with. >> You okay I would I would love if there's any way to get that data in a way that's more zoomable. And I'm specifically asking because I'm trying to make sure that some of our smaller pocket neighborhoods know some of the opportunities to be able to work with the city to identify land. We were very excited to welcome director Aguirre to district eight yesterday for a ribbon cutting at scenic brook pocket park, which is one that the neighborhood association actually deeded over to the city about nine years ago. So we're very excited to have that online. And it looks amazing. Kids love it, but I'm thinking about other parts of my district that have similar stories where maybe they have land identified, where that could either be deeded or somehow other acquired by the city. And I think that would help us and help the neighbors know what opportunities might [10:05:47 AM] know what opportunities might be in front of them. If it's something that they can actually zoom in and and see how far are they from their parks, what does that walk shed look like? And you know what could or could not work for for those neighborhoods? >> Is there any. >> I was curious, doctor Masino have you done any? Whether it's analysis or just kind of your base knowledge, I'm curious how we compare to whether it's Dallas or San Antonio kind of sister cities. You know, as we've seen this rapid growth, how have other areas, if you have any exposure to those other areas handled this or or not? And if not, that's fine. I just I was looking at that red map of, you know, as, as we've grown and I didn't know if you had any. [10:06:48 AM] had any. >> I think we can talk about the general like how we rank overall, you know, maybe not particularly in comparison to other. >> Sure, sure. >> Dallas Fort Worth and I'm going to ask Junie plummer to speak to that from our group. >> One of the things. Okay. >> Just introduce yourself for the record, please. >> Yes. For those who don't know. >> Junie plummer, retired city of Austin employee and an evergreen board member, one of the things we looked at was Fort Worth, and they have a five year plan for 10,000 acres, and it involved a lot of different funding sources. But it was very clever. It was very creative. It was embracing their nature. And they were one of the five cities that lost parkland. Dedication. So the five are San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth and Austin. So we looked at those five. What are they doing? What are [10:07:49 AM] What are they doing? What are they embracing? And they really had a strong 10,000 acre plan. When we look at the city of San Antonio, which was our first example, because many years ago, one eighth of 1% of their sales tax went to their parks. And that was then later terminated. But nuremberg, the mayor at the time, promised 10 million a year. So they were all having different kinds of approaches. Now, was that directly related to the loss of pld? You can't quite equate it to that. We looked at the city of Houston, which is really Progressive. They have 67 municipal management districts, and that in that those management districts commercial helps pay for the parkland. So there were bigger bonds in Dallas, bigger bonds, commitments from different funding sources, but in particular, Fort Worth really kind of drew that attention to 10,000 acres over five years as their goal. [10:08:51 AM] five years as their goal. >> And. As you you talked about some of the benefits. You know, the there's the climate element. We talked about some of the the parks and rec benefits, you know, whether it's a passive park, I'm trying to think about these things all. Together. And as, as the decision is going to come to us, there is a $100 million ask from pard. There's a $300 million ask from, I don't know what we're calling them now. They were the office of climate action resilience. I guess it's now the Austin. I got to get our new names right. But formerly office of climate action resilience more focused on the climate equity plan. You know, element of, you know, being carbon sink. We've also had as your map shows, a lot of water conservation, water conservation, protection lands. How do we balance all of these things and how do we accomplish [10:09:55 AM] things and how do we accomplish as much as we can with the dollars we're spending? You know, if we if we purchase land, let's say that's blackland prairie, you know, but then eventually turn it into a trail, or we can we get those cross benefits or, you know, the Trevino park, I think is quite the example, right, of this huge, huge park that right now is more of a carbon sink than it is a recreation area. But there is a plan to make it more recreational. So I'm not asking a very good question, but I just I'm trying to put all these pieces together of how we think about the maximum benefit, both from a climate perspective and a public enjoyment perspective. To have that ten minute walk or less ability. >> That that's a fantastic question. And I think the key is that those benefits, the benefits that evergreen is bringing to brought to the discussion and the ones [10:10:56 AM] discussion and the ones mentioned by pard, those are collective benefits of green spaces, right? You absolutely are going to see, for example, differential impact on carbon from an undeveloped, more natural area compared to a tiny pocket park. You are going to see different heat sink effects. If you have an area of continuous green, rather than a small spot of green surrounded by a circle of concrete. Right? So these are absolutely things that are true. I, I do believe that those details can be worked out. The plan that pard presented, where they have a breakdown between the type park, that's one approach that you could use to then model what the impact in those different areas would be over time. Because if you have a good balance. So not everything as climate mitigation, not everything as immediate neighborhood access parks, within five minutes, you will be able to get the benefits of all of those areas. I do want to note that you had a really [10:11:57 AM] to note that you had a really powerful number at the end of your presentation. The 100 million in spending gets you 150. Just if you look at the land acquisition cost, but that does not account for air pollution reduction and reduced health care costs. Impact on communities health because of being able to exercise water quality impacts and all the spending that can come in there. So I think that that's it's a good number, but that is a low estimate for the financial benefit over time of acting on all of those areas. But it's a great question, and I think that we have a lot of talented people in this city who can model that out and give us really good information about what the balance between those types of areas and types of acquisition could be. >> And I would like just to say that it is important that we don't look at parks or land as producing only one outcome because we have, as the professor said, we have impact [10:12:58 AM] professor said, we have impact on quality of life and health benefits. We have impact on the environment. And of course, we have impacts on on economics because we know that properties that are in proximity to parks have actually higher values, which translates to economic benefits for the city. And of course, economic benefits from tourism and other visitors. These are always present. So parkland and land banking and land acquisitions offer benefits that are multifold and stand the test of time. And of course, we are talking about air quality, water and TRE canopy. And part of the items. Actually, it was mentioned in the presentation. We very much coordinate with Austin water, with watershed, with housing, and with other departments to [10:14:00 AM] and with other departments to make sure that we meet the multiple goals on every case. >> And as we're it's probably a question for Randy, if we're thinking about, you know, comparing a very large acquisition of a space, you know, whether it's the type of acquisition that could be a metropolitan park or just, you know, a very large area park versus, you know, a series of very small kind of pocket parks within a neighborhood. You know, looking at the map, some of these neighborhoods, they're they're all houses right there. The only way to create a park is basically to take a house and tear it down and turn it into a park. What's the whether it's privatization or how how are y'all thinking about either I do more people. Do you have any data on usage of like, if you're able to put a series of pocket parks versus having a larger destination park usage. >> Yeah, people do travel [10:15:04 AM] >> Yeah, people do travel longer distances to get to destination parks, which we would consider more like a district park or metropolitan park. Metropolitan parks are very large. They're over 200 acres in size. But neighborhood parks are is the city's goal council directed to have a park within a quarter mile and a half mile of all residents? So after work or after school or or more neighborhood park type of amenities to take the little ones playscapes loop trail exercise, those are some of the benefits that a pocket park neighborhood park can provide to communities with yards and denser development. Those become even more important in the city. This. That's the only outlet for many residents. So going back in and buying [10:16:05 AM] going back in and buying parkland in areas that are deficient in parkland in the city is very difficult. One and number two, they're expensive per acre value, and they even have a higher maintenance requirement for part when they're land banked, because we do have to keep it mowed on a regular basis because it has residents next door to it. But it's an invaluable asset to the community for those neighborhoods. >> Do we ever go into a neighborhood where it is nothing but residential and someone's selling a house and say, this is the only. >> Yes, we've bought houses. Usually they were larger lot developments. Or maybe that was the ranch house where they sold off around them. But yes, we've we've torn down usually dilapidated housing, a lot of it closing gaps on greenbelts [10:17:06 AM] it closing gaps on greenbelts as well, trying to make that trail connection. So our acquisition methodology is you know, we're it's a it's a following linear parks. And then having nodes along those linear parks for people to be able to get to them without crossing roads or, you know, getting in traffic. >> I'm curious in terms of the conversation about maximizing use. You know, we're talking wear on the bond package, present or proposal. There is a lot of land for stormwater, especially regional stormwater mitigation. And, you know, we just thought last week at a council meeting having a stormwater infrastructure, but that when it's not flooded, however many days a year for the other 300, some days a year, it is a park and open space. So how are y'all talking to watershed about. >> If yes? >> Okay. >> So a couple of those that [10:18:06 AM] >> So a couple of those that are maybe underway now, maybe Adams, Hemphill and quail creek are two parks where they have construction ongoing right now of water management. >> Well very good. Well, I'm excited to see this go forward. I hope that we are going to make significant investments in this. I think the the case is very clear and y'all have laid it out very well. So I really appreciate just kind of highlighting the value because I think we we don't always. Can't always put our finger on the value. And here you have helped do that. So we will we will certainly see. And and I encourage you all to participate the bond task force as well and look forward to hearing how that goes. So is that I do need to back up and do take up item one approval of the minutes. So I see a motion by councilmember Siegel, seconded by council vice chair [10:19:06 AM] seconded by council vice chair Ellis. Without objection, the minutes are approved. We were going to have a couple other briefings, but everyone else decided next time. So we get out a little early. Today it is 1019, and if there is no other business to come before the committee, we shall be adjourned.